Five Stages of Grief (9/10/2015)
Amelia
September 16th, 2015
This discussion, The Five Stages of Grief, was attended by members, guests, and listeners! Below is a summary of the questions as well as some of the responses (for confidentiality reasons, I chose to leave guest/member/listener names off of the specific quotes):
(1) What kinds of things could cause someone to experience grief?
----Loss.
----Getting hurt.
----Loss of family member.
----Loneliness.
----Getting hurt by loved ones.
----Isnt grief only about death?
I'm glad you asked that. Not necessarily.
----Death.
----Fear of death too.
----Chronic illness.
(2) So, who here has heard of the Five Stages of Grief?
----Many had heard of it.
----I've heard of them but I don't know them.
----I have…learned about it in psychology.
Without looking them up ....anyone know what they are?
----Denial.
----Acceptance.
----Anger.
----Bargaining.
----I think I know some stages but not in the right order.
----Denial/isolation, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance.
----Is anger part of it and depression and worry and happiness?
----Denial anger acceptance bargaining depression.
An easy way to remember is the acronym DABDA (Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance)
(3) The five stages of grief are Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Which stages of grief have you seen or experienced first-hand?
----All.
----Denial and anger...and maybe into depression.
----Anger and depression.
----All five.
----All of them.
----Depression.
----All.....in messed order and repeat them.
----I feel like I experienced all of them. Quite recently actually.
Sometimes it's not in order and can repeat?
----Its been 15 years and I still cannot accept it.
----I feel like I get stuck flipping between denial and depression.
(4) Which stage of grief is the most difficult to overcome?
----Anger.
----Depression.
----I've accepted it, but haven't moved on with life.
----The depression definitely.
----I can see that....cause when you finally feel you're through a stage...but then end up having to come back to it, and do it all over again.
----Acceptance.
----Depression or bargaining, I think.
----Oh gosh, all of them except acceptance. Staying in acceptance is hard for me.
----So hard to accept something. I always try to find fault and blame.
----Because being angry is so easy and so hard to overcome anger.
----In their own way, I find each one is.
----Bargaining is sad because you're so desperate to get better you're literally pleading.
----Hard to remind myself that some things are out of our control.
----Its just really not fair at all.
That may be part of where acceptance comes in?
----Yeah. Why I have such a hard time getting there.
----Accepting that it is out of my control is difficult.
----Acceptance is very difficult.
I agree!! And can take quite some time, right?
----Like accepting something that happened in your past that you can't change. Its so hard.
(5) How long does grief last?
----Is there a possibility of never accepting it..?
----Sometimes it comes, and I feel at peace, but that doesn't last.
----Feels like forever.
----I feel like it lasts a different length depending on the person and their ability to find acceptance.
----It can last forever in varying degrees.
----Amelia, is it true that grief actually shortens peoples life span? I think I heard that somewhere. (BLTmaster)
----Years for me. It's been 3 years and still going. Still going back and forth between bargaining and acceptance.
----4 years.
BLT....that's a good question. What does everyone else think? Does grief shorten the lifespan? (Amelia)
----Feels like it sometimes.
----Yes, I think.
----I think it could….depression could cause you to have a bad immune system.
----Maybe it can shorten your lifespan because you don't take care of yourself to the best of your ability?
----I feel like it definitely ages you.
----Mental illness causes medical illnesses.
----Actually, it seems to be more prolonged.
I think that grief can cause excess stress which can cause lower immune system, higher blood pressure, higher risk for heart attack etc. Thoughts?
----Also, suicide could become of being stuck in the depression stage of grief.
----I don't doubt that, Amelia.
----Like headaches as an everyday example.
----Amelia, that makes sense.
----I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe that's why my life is a mess right now.
(6) Do you feel that you understand all of the stages? Which is the hardest to understand and why?
----Bargaining.
----I don't quite get bargaining.
----I'm not sure how bargaining works.
----Acceptance.
Let's start with bargaining for a moment.
----I don't so much as bargain as question why Im in that situation in the first place.
----Is bargaining just where you offer something in your life to have that person back? You would give anything to have that person you lost back?"
The 5 stages were developed by Kubler-Ross. Originally, she looked at grief of impending death. For example, someone dying from cancer. So, with bargaining, often that is with one's higher power. Things like "I'll go to church every week if you let me live." and so forth. Does that make more sense?
----So if it's when you're grieving the loss of someone...the bargaining doesn't fit in quite the same? (Moj)
----Ah I see. So like, "I'll be a better person if you stay in my life"?
Moj, good question. I think sometimes people get stuck in, if I wake up tomorrow and they are alive again, I'll go to church, and so forth.
----When your mind is a mess and you think you can discover a new law in life and think you can prevent the bad situation.
Yes! That's another example of bargaining.
----But it's not something that you can change anymore...there's nothing more you can do to have that person alive again... (Moj)
Agreed, Moj, but we are not always thinking rationally while grieving...you know?
----Actually, IMHO, when you're in grief, the trivial things don't matter anymore suddenly.
So, what about acceptance? What does that stage mean?
----Bargaining relates to What Ifs and If Onlys.
----When you are in grief, I think a part of us just wants to believe death is reversible.
----Acceptance is hardest to get to. I think you can acknowledge it's happened, but actually accepting it is a totally different story.
----When we talk about death is to realize the person has left and try to accept that and be mentally okay.
----Acceptance is where your head is finally clear and you realize that you cannot bring them back. So you accept it. You still miss them. But you celebrate their life.
----Acceptance is when you hit that wall and realize that the only exit is acceptance.
----It's so hard to accept you'll never see someone again or be able to hear them speak to you.
Let's take it away from death for a moment. What about grief over chronic illness?
----Prolonged suffering. You never know when it'll be alright.
----I dont understand that stage in chronic illness.
Could acceptance mean that you're going to learn to make changes in your life to adapt to the illness rather than question it and fight it?
----In my own instance, I hurt my back and had to give up my favorite sport and can never play again and that caused me a lot of grief. Does that count?
----Accepting a chronic illness is when you kind of figure things out...and figure out what works for you, and realize and go with the fact that life's not necessarily the same from here on out...but that you continue striving and living.
----I'm scared of accepting, chronic illness, because I wish to not live like this for the rest of my life.
----I think that I grieve over the way my life used to be before my depression go so bad.
----So accept Im not okay but Im mentally fine to try to make this better and improve myself?
So, does "accept" mean we are "okay" with the situation?
----I can't relate to illness, but my dad had a stroke and lost a leg. Instead or working now, I think he should find a passion he can do now with all the time.
----I don't think so Amelia... Not in my opinion at least. Like I accept that I'll never play my sport again but I'm not okay that I lost it, I've just come to accept I cant.
----Maybe more of we can make it work.
----In a sense...yes. Not that we are happy about it...but something we've learned to be part of us.
I look at it as, I'm not okay with it but I cannot change it so I will learn to live with it.
(7) Are you ever able to recognize what stage of grief you are in?
----Yes.
----Sometimes maybe...but I think at times you're in a combination of more than one.
----Sometimes I can recognize, but can't we also be in more than one stage at a time?
----It might be hard for a lot of people but I feel some can. Like it took me forever to finally realize I was in the depressed stage because I didn't want to admit I was.
----These stages do not come one by one…..so, I guess it depends .
(8) If one is in the denial stage, how do you think is best to approach that?
----I think it's important to be gentle with yourself no matter what stage you're in….so I guess a gentle
----I think it is a protective shield until you are willing to acknowledge it.
----I think it just takes time with denial.
----Denial is hard because you have to come out of it but pushing someone out of denial can hurt them because it's a coping mechanism.
----Acknowledging it would be a start, yes.
In fact, can denial be a way for our mind to protect us from the harsh reality?
----Absolutely.
----Yes, rocket.
----I think that's what it tries to do, the brain wants to protect us and denies the change.
----To try to feel as long as you can good, until you face you arent anymore.
----Denial is the worst stage, I guess.
What about try to talk to other about it? Maybe people who are more objective?
----Surround yourself with people that care and understand maybe?
----I feel it's good to talk to someone about it. Someone who can be objective with you. It's what I do. I talk to people on here and they make me see things I miss out.
----If you are in denial I think you dont understand, so other people have to tell you something is wrong.
----Sometimes I just need a slap in the face with facts.
(9) Anger seems to be one that many of us have experienced, what are ways in which we could deal with that frustration and upset?
----Find outlets. That's most important. Healthy ones.
----I'm still in anger.
----Sometimes seeking professional help for someone is necessary, so the process can be started.
----Find a hobby you enjoy, or a friend to vent to and get the frustration out.
----Outlets, hobbies, music.
----Cant find an outlet though usually.
----And talking...and sometimes if need be yelling, screaming about it...so you're not just bottling it all up.
That brings up a good point. In the moment, it's often hard to find an outlet for our anger. What are some healthy outlets for anger?
----Exercise.
----Running.
----Sports, exercise.
----Something like kickboxing?
----Singing works for me too.
----Listening to music.
----Me too, C! I sing at the top of my lungs!
-----Art helps me.
----Some hard working (like fix something).
----I used to cry.
----Yard work.
----Drumming.
----I always put on harder music and sing to it, it gets my frustration out.
Good, P! Crying can be a great outlet.
----Going for a drive at times helps too.
----Hugging or petting an animal helps too.
(10) In the bargaining stage, we want answers to questions others may not be able to answer. How can we deal with that?
----A lot of times we have to get the answers ourselves (sorry dog is tackling me).
----Remember some things we cannot control at all.
----Try to make the situation seem as real as possible? Convince yourself that whatever it is is actually happening.
What about going ahead and asking all the questions you have....giving yourself time to question what happened?
----Just be careful not to think too much at one time though. I almost gave myself a mental breakdown.
----Release emotions at the moment.
What about talking out your questions with someone objective?
----But again, it's good to have someone objective with you while you list out your thoughts.
----For few minutes one will be in too much shock, then anger, then confused, then tears float.
----I feel blind in that situation….talking to others helps clear that.
----I too question why I'm being made to go through all this.
----Maybe ask questions to figure out whats happening when is the time to realize you are not okay.
(11) Do you feel that the depression stage of grief is different from depression resulting from other scenarios? If so, how?
----I would say they are similar.
----In personal experience as someone who's suffered from both, normal depression seems more calm? Like just a downer, but depression from grief is raw and hurts and is heavier.
----Depression from grief seems to get better for me over time, while other depression seems more permanent.
----You go through some of the same emotions. I agree that depression feels more permanent and heavier though.
----I think depression is the same in what it does, but maybe getting over it from different causes might be different.
So, the depression that comes with grief is perhaps more intense? While the other type is more long-lasting?
----For me it is.
----I think it may differ, but for me I believe that is the case.
----I think depression differs with situations.
----Depression that comes from grief is more intensive because some where u r connected to that for a long time.
The way I look at it is that the depression stage of grief is more situation specific. While, perhaps depression in general can happen regardless of the situation. (This is just how I have experienced it...not necessarily right or wrong.)
----I like that explanation, rocket.
----Like I have depression from stress with school, and also from grief.
----Depression can be because of some loved one hurt you.
(12) What does the word acceptance mean in reference to grief? Do you ever "accept" grief?
----If you accept the phase you are going through and let it flow, you will know life is beautiful.
----I think for me there's a difference between accepting that I'm grieving, and accepting the loss.
----Acceptance is hard.
----Give time to yourself. One must accept the situations. No situation is without a purpose.
----My mom died and it was hard to accept it.
----With grief I feel as though I grow stronger afterwards. It is a long steep hill, but there is more beauty at the top than where I came from.
----Acceptance is hard but we need to accept it.
And, like I asked earlier, does "acceptance" mean we are "okay" with what happened?
----No.
----Life is always imperfect.
----I don't think people can say they are ok with it.
----I think it is relearning to see the beauty in all the good around rather than dwell on the bad for long enough that you become it.
(13) Does everyone reach acceptance? What factors might affect this?
----Not necessarily being okay with it, but also not letting it define you.
----You just deal with it and learn to live with the loss.
----Im not brave enough to accept tragedy.
----Acceptance to me means I see something is lost, and I'll make do with what I have still.
----Maybe attachment plays a role?
----I don't think "dealing with it" is the best phrase to use either, because a lot of the times we don't deal well.
----Its tough, but without acceptance we are like closed in a room without any stuff, and acceptance makes you realize okay I dont have this, let me be happy with what I have.
Personally, I don't think everyone reaches acceptance. One thing that may play into it is other mental illnesses that compound the problem. Like depression, anxiety, addiction, etc. But many people do reach acceptance as well.
----My childhood love is no longer with me but I cannot accept it.
----I think I reached mine. There is some sort of regret from time to time, but I know everything is alright.
----I have to live life knowing I got no one as a mother, I can't accept that I'm motherless.
----That will ways be there, the death of such a big person in your life, you don't ever really move on, you just slowly learn how to live again and not let it be the #1 defining factor in your life I guess.
----That's okay, S. I believe I understood the essence of what you meant - to learn how to cope well enough to continue on as best as we can.
(14) What words of encouragement have helped you through grief? Or what would you like to say to another who is experiencing grief?
----Take it at your pace, no one elses. Don't let anyone try to push you.
----"There is a light at the end of the long, dark tunnel.
----This is a hard one. It depends on why they grieve.
----This isn't exactly an answer, but I hate when people tell me that everything will be okay.
What about, you are not alone.....do you think that helps too?
----I'd prefer someone to just let me know they are there for me, rather than try to convince me that everything will be fine.
----I always hear that helping others in the same situation makes yourself better, and it does.
----It helps me when people acknowledge its not ok but that even though it isn't, they are there for me through the parts that aren't ok.
----"We come across so many things in life. Not all of them will remain with you but they do leave something. Some things are just there to teach us something, or direct us to something else."
----Also some of the things that have helped me out of the worst times were not words but actions, like helping me clean my room, or bringing me food when I haven't been taking care of myself.
I'd like to end by sharing one of my favorite quotes: "It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone. ― Rose Kennedy
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2 replies
LightACandle
September 16th, 2015
Thanks again for this discussion :) Yesterday I looked into how a nation or a people might be grieving in my philosophy class. This discussion helped.
1 reply
@LightACandle--that's awesome!!
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peacefulSoul8
September 26th, 2015
this is me after my sisters death definately...its soo hard
2 replies
peacefulSoul8
September 26th, 2015
She actually committed suicide at age 25:( 1 August 2013
1 reply
@peacefulSoul8: *hugs*....that's such a hard loss!
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