Hey this is me.... (possible trigger warning)
Hey, this is me.. some call me soul or twisted, either or is fine. I am of no importance and in all likelihood, in a few minutes I won't even be a fleeting thought in your mind. I spend all my time alone. Well I share my life with 2 dogs. My rescuers. I'm not used to asking for help, I'm not used to having anyplace to turn to . I have social anxiety, so this feels twice as hard as it should. I found an bottle of Wild Turkey in a cupboard this weekend ,so, I had a few swallows of liquid courage. Hey, it's 5 o'clock somewhere right? Yeah I know it's not helping my state of mind. Especially since I'm depressed. Lay on the floor, stare at the ceiling for hours depression. Same song on repeat. Rest stop by Matchbox 20. Not sure why I settled on that one. I think it's the lyric's.. Are you listening, can you hear me.. Have you forgotten.
Today make's it 11 days since I last self harmed. It's there though, in the front of my mind. I'm trying to fight it. I can see it in my mind. I do not want to do this. I don't. But it there, you know. It's always there..waiting, lurking, stalking. I catch myself staring at my hands, they aren't my hands. I mean they are but they seem to have a mind of their own. They are not my friends today. They want to reach for the sharpest tool I own and just cut. Tip to tip.
In the fleeting moment that I might cross your mind, Maybe just send a happy thought my way.
@NoneTheWiser @mytwistedsoul
Thanks for understanding. Being able to talk to friends really helps, and Im so glad that youre willing to help me.
Buckle up, everyone. This will probably be a long novel of a post. But idk, I want to talk more about situations in my physical life I think. (Im trying to avoid calling it my real life because THIS is also real life, no matter what anyone else says.)
So, I consider myself an introvert and social situations make me really uncomfortable, but I do have friends. I have some friends at school and some friends at swim. But Im going to talk about my… inner circle? Theyre my closest friends.
Ive met them all through swimming, and we go to three different schools altogether. Im the oldest, which is funny because Im also the shortest. They say my last name looks like the pizza brand Digiorno, so Im Digiorno (which is where I got my username). A, L, and S are in my group too, and M and R are in their own groups. Four girls and two guys (M and R are guys— idk why this is at all important to the story but whatever). Im close to all of them, but my best, best friend out of all is R, and he is a little bit distant from the others.
So we are all close, but lately Ive felt like distancing myself from them. I think it might be that I want time to be sad or whatever instead of hiding it. R and I have still been more open with each other than with anyone else, but nowadays I feel so awkward talking to him. I feel annoying and like Im always saying the wrong thing. His parents think Im a bad influence (long story) and even though Ive been assured multiple times that Im not, I still feel like its true, and that theyre right. (Which is strange because Im pretty much the most innocent and obedient child of them— but self doubt, ya know?) And now Im having a hard time talking to R— constantly feeling like an annoyance and a bad influence, never knowing what to say. It makes me really sad. Were in different groups, and the way our practice schedules work out we only get to see each other face to face in Thursdays.
I miss the easy conversations I used to have with R, so thats probably a reason Ive been feeling down lately. Just in general, constantly second guessing myself— it can be exhausting.
I love talking to you guys, the no judgement is really nice. Plus, I really feel like I can relate to your lives, and in general you both are funny and kind people. So a big thank you for that :)
Guess that about wraps it up for now. Take care, be gentle with yourselfs (sorry that I keep stealing that J), and dont forget to enjoy some pop tarts! :D
Not quite what I wanted it to be, but it is a start. Song stuck in my head— Carnivore by Starset.
Never enough/Who I am is not good enough
@ThePizza Ok - so there's a good chance that I won't have a clue with what I'm talking about.
I can definitely understand being uncomfortable with social situations. I would imagine that because of this the friends in your "inner circle" are even more important and special for you. I'm sorry to hear that you feel you have to withdraw from them so you can be down. Although I know you've been depressed and that one of the things you do when you're depressed is withdraw. You might not even fully understand why you're doing it, and that's ok. Alot of the times we do it - is because it's easier. It's easier to be alone. It's not healthy for sure but Depression affects everything. Your sleep, your concentration. It makes us irritable.
Depression can also affect how we feel about talking with people. It makes us feel awkward. Kind of like we're being Pita's. So of course I have questions. You don't have to answer any of them, unless you want to. It's entirely your choice. Did something happen between the two of you that makes you feel this way when you're around him? Did your feelings toward him change maybe? Like I said before depression can affect everything. It deepens the self doubt. And with all thats going on, it sounds like the depression is fueling everything else. Would there be anyway you would be able to talk to him about how you're feeling with all this? Which I'm sure would be scary. Or maybe write him a letter or an email? You could even write it and not send it to him. I can't see you as a bad influence. Maybe his parents are more concerned about the boy/ girl aspect of it as you're getting older?
It is exhausting, it takes up alot of energy to keep all that inside. And being exhausted makes us feel even more depressed.
I'm sorry I don't have any good answers or advice, but I am so glad you trusted us enough to open up and talk with us about what's bothering you. Like I said - I know how hard and scary that can be.
I enjoy talking with you too and never any judgment here. You're welcome and thank you, too.
Sorry this post is so long. I always feel like I have to try to full explain everything.
You're not stealing it, just borrowing it, lol! You be gentle with yourself too, and take care. oh yeah ----
I've always liked Starset and it's an excellent song. Pizza - I'm so sorry if that's how you're feeling. You need to have your words heard - we want to hear them, yeah? Always. You are definitely good enough. DEFINITELY!
@mytwistedsoul
Thanks for the response, I appreciated that. Here are the answers to some of your questions. (In my answer to the last question I talk about some controversial stuff… whatever your opinion on it is, I guess, please dont hate me… um sorry thats an awkward way of saying it. So anyway.
I hope that we can both respect each others differring opinions while still respecting one another and maintaining our current relationship. There, that sounds more official. ANYway)
Did something happen between the two of you that makes you feel this way when you're around him? Sometimes he can be kinda standoffish. Also I live under a rock and Im also pretty innocent, so I think I frustrate him when I dont know stuff, especially since he makes a lot of references to things. Sometimes he can be pretty direct and I guess it hurts my feelings a bit, but I dont want to say anything because I know that he didnt mean it, and I dont want him to feel bad… idk, maybe I should say something.
Did your feelings toward him change maybe? Well, I guess kind of. I feel super clingy nowadays (though I guess that could be because I dont get to see him much anymore). I like talking to him but I dont want to be annoying and I think I try too hard to respond exactly the right way. And like you said, it probably has a lot to do with self doubt too.
Would there be anyway you would be able to talk to him about how you're feeling with all this? If I was ever brave enough I would. I dont know if hed take it very well. As in, hed probably start blaming himself for things he has no control over (I am aware of the irony in saying that) and Id feel guilty for doing that. He also has his own issues and I dont want to add to that… I probably should talk to him… I just dont know. I worry that Im just being too sensitive. And overall he is a great friend. I think I could right a letter and just not send it, thanks for the suggestion.
I can't see you as a bad influence. Maybe his parents are more concerned about the boy/ girl aspect of it as you're getting older? So… about this one… he was originally female. Sort of. He was born a girl but he feels more comfortable representing as a guy. I dont think his parents like that, and he told me they think its just a phase. So Im guessing part of it is because I encouraged him to be a guy, but I mean I only did that because he wanted to be seen as a guy. Also he told me that whenever hes sad and he says that or he makes a negative remark, his parents say Dont be like M (me). So they think Im a bad influence because Im super negative and I made HIM more negative? I mean, as R pointed out, he was already like that himself to a degree. He assured me that Im not but self doubt and all. So now especially around R, I feel the need to be more positive and helpful and just a better person in general. Also Im not sure how his parents got this idea of me, because I dont know his parents that well. Ive only talked to them a few times. I guess R talked about me to them? (Funny thing is, its likely that if my parents knew R better they would think HE was the bad influence.) Sorry, thats a long rambling response to only one question.
I realized I probably sounded rude there, so I just wanted to say— I
@ThePizza You weren't rude. I can understand that you're being cautious and paranoid. I'm pretty open minded about everything. So it's all good. I myself kind of have the philosophy of hope for the best but expect the worst. Now on to the big post, lol!
@ThePizza First let me start by saying - I don't hate you, why would I? Second - I read nothing that would make me change my opinion about you or anyone else mentioned in your post.
Ok so - There's nothing wrong with being innocent or naive - people mature or grow up at different "speeds", some of it is just us as individuals, because we're all our own people, some of it is our exposure to things. What we deal with in our lives - the people we're around, other friends and family. I would imagine having older siblings would probably factor in too. I'm not saying he's wrong for being direct, however there is tact, maybe that's not the right word. Concideration, (that's it) for other's in our lives and how we affect them. I know it doesn't make it right really but maybe he feels he can be that way because you are close friends. But being close friends should also allow you to be the same with how it hurts your feelings. While he may not mean it, he may not understand either or see what he's doing.
You're trying to be conciderate of his feelings, while ignoring your own. But it sort of has to be a two way street or everything is just one sided. Kind of a give and take. But that has to come from both of you. You can't keep giving and not get anything in return or you'll end up empty. I think self doubt probably has alot to do with it. But not being able to him much anymore does kind of affect being able to talk openly. If you only have so much time together, there's only so much you can cover. Maybe with summer coming you could set up a day during the week where you could get together to just hang out for a few hours, then an opportunity would present it's self that you could discuss some things easier.
There's nothing wrong with being sensitive. Alot of this comes down to concideration again. I can understand being afraid of talking about things. In all honesty - I'm not sure how you could go about talking with him about things. You of course know him best and I understand your not wanting to add to his problems (concideration again) but I can't help but feel you shouldn't have to carry all the weight of everything. Because it's not healthy for you. As friends you should be able to work together on this and as you said in the beginning to me - have different opinions and still respect each other.
Ah - ok. I can't see anything wrong with it. You should be able to be comfortable in your own skin. I can see why his parents might not like it, it doesn't make it right of course. Because they should be supportive no matter what his choices are. And you being a supportive friend, of course you're going to come into their sight and line of fire. He could have made a completely innocent remark about you being supportive of his choices and that right there made his parents decide that you're a bad influence. Strictly because you're not trying to change his mind and not on their side. If that's the case, it wouldn't matter if you were the pope and they knew you for 50 years. They're the ones being judgmental and it has nothing to do with you. As friends you should be able to tell each other anything, but I can't help but think that maybe he could have kept the comments from his parents about you being a bad negative influence to himself. It seems to me that they are using you as an excuse for what they disapprove of instead of accepting what he wants. Basically it makes it easier for them to have someone to blame and it doesn't have anything to do with you as a person. It's not fair of course. And with you dealing with your own problems and being depressed it just adds to it all. As for your parents not know him better - it says you're not talking to them about things, which of course I can understand because you're worried that they would do the same thing as his parents, yeah? I hope I can assure you - there is absolutely nothing wrong with you, theres nothing worng with you being supportive. It says alot about you. You are a great friend. I know it doesn't help how you feel but I can't help but think that the real problems are between him and his parents and their unwillingness to accept him, you're just caught in the middle.
Oh crap - sorry Pizza I wrote you a book, it's probably more rambling then your post. Just know that we all support you here and you can come talk to us about anything you have on your mind.
@mytwistedsoul
Ahhh— there goes my overthinking again. Honestly, I dont know why I made it sound so dramatic. As I said a bit ago, I didnt expect you to; youre not that kind of person.
Dont worry, I sorta take pride in my innocence. Yeah, I can tell when hes being intentionally being mean (not that he does that) and when hes just being blunt because that is the way he sees things, and its just his personality. What you say makes sense, about how he doesnt realize it can be hurtful to me. But sometimes I worry that Im trying to change him, which I dont want to do. I want to be accepting of who he is and celebrate that part (that sounds SUPER WEIRD, agh). That may tie in with the shame thing Wise One was talking about, idk.
Im realizing now that internalizing is an unhealthy habit of mine, and its been getting better yet worse. I used to be their therapist (I was happy to do it, I volunteered and apparently they thought I was good at it), and that was no fun. I thought Id escaped that role recently but now I think Ive still been extremely locked to them in that sense. I thought once I stopped being their therapist I would automatically open up to them, but its been really hard and I havent been succeeding.
The whole experience has made me realize that Im a very closed off person and I dont talk to people as openly as I should. I really thought this was the better way to handle things (well, I still think that— its so hard to let the light in even when you know theres something wrong). Now I can see that its damaging. And thanks to you and Jess I have some plans for the future and how to improve things.
Thanks! It still feels weird being this open, but your reactions have been fine so it must be alright to continue. Long posts are nice because you can tell the other person wants to talk to you and has put effort into it : )
Sorry I took so long to respond, I was sidetracked multiple times. Word of the post: Realizing
@ThePizza It's all right, you were nervous about opening up and letting me know where you stand on respect and opinions. I know how close minded people can be, boy do I know.
I don't think it sounds weird, you're a very supportive friend, there's nothing wrong with that. There should be more people like that in the world.
It's hard to go from being a listener to a listenee. You were strong to listen to them and it's hard to show that side that needs someone else to listen to them. It leaves you feeling very alone. Kind of like water every where but not a drop to drink. That sounds sort of stupid but hopefully you get my meaning. Even the stongest of people have a hard time showing that side of themselves, especially to those closest to them.
I'm kind of in this same spot right now. It's hard to show what you might think of as weaknesses. Maybe we feel that they're unimportant or there's some embarrassment or fear - of reactions or judgment. Think of this as a stepping stone, once you get comfortable here on this stone, you'll have laid the foundation for the next one and before you know it you will have a beautiful paved path that will lead you onward and upward. It is hard to let the light in, because sometimes you want to pull the curtains tighter, maybe because we don't want to see the truth. It's great to hear you have plans and are planning on making improvements!
You're welcome. It does feel weird doesn't it? Lol! BUt you are doing great! And you can take this at your own pace, we won't ever pressure you into anything. You'll let us know when you're ready, yeah?
Hey no worries - I am a master side tracker. Lol!
@mytwistedsoul
Hey, Im working on a reply. Wanted to earlier but Ive been feeling depressed and unmotivated today. Just dont have the energy.
How are you? I saw your post on the other thread. Being completely honest… Im not good with the details. So some of your posts about your crew are a bit cryptic to me. I apologize if I get anything wrong because of this. That being said, I hope everything with 10/11 goes well. I hope hes safe. (That probably sounds really judgemental and creepy, sorry.) I hope youre all safe. (Creepy McCreepface) Storms are nice, but if theres lightning keeping you inside it gets annoying pretty quickly. Hope they pass over soon and you can finish your table.
Have a nice night J :)
@NoneTheWiser
You too, Wise One. I really appreciate you :)
@ClassicalMe
Wherever you are now, I hope it
@ThePizza Thank you - please don't be offended - i'm going to hold off on explaining my crew right now. It's nothing against you at all. It just something I really need to be 100% there to give it the attention it deserves. As for the one you hope is safe - let's just say - that I'm working on it and will do my very best to see that he is safe
@mytwistedsoul
No worries at all, take your time. Im happy to hear an explaination when the time is best for you. Im glad— um not sure what to say now, sorry. Well, goodnight, really dont think about that elephant, and… yeah. Not offended at all
@ThePizza Thank you for understanding, I really do appreciate it. Good night to you too! Be gentle with yourself, have good dreams, yeah? about big purple elephants! lol!
@mytwistedsoul
Thanks. Yeah, I was/am really nervous, but its been going very well. Sometimes getting someone elses perspective is great for a fresh start, when you have a negative view of yourself and they see good instead.
Thats a great analogy; and I understood it, too. Often I feel strange for helping my friends yet keeping my emotions and thoughts on the inside, because I feel it can send the message I dont want to drag you down with my problems, because when you tell me your problems they drag me down. That is NOT how I feel, nor is it the message I want to send. The truth is, I want to help you because I feel all your struggles, no matter how significant or meaningless you think they are, are important because its hurting you. But if its MY problems I dont want to tell you because I feel like they ARE insignificant and you shouldnt have to listen to my stupid complaining and whining. I think of it as having reversed standards; its perfectly fine for you, but completely unacceptable for me.
Im sorry youre struggling with this too, but I believe that you will also find ways to open up— and more good people, too. Yes, the embarrassment and shame is a big thing. And the judgment too. Ive had a few experiences where Ive told someone about a problem, and they either dismiss it or tell me its nothing and proceed to describe their superior problem. Right now stones are hard to lay down because I have to quarry them first, but Im working at it. Plans, yes, lets hope I follow them, lol. You and Jess inspired them though, so thank you for that.
Very weird. Thanks for the vote of confidence, it helps. Yes, I will let you know. This is one place I dont feel pressured and its very nice.
Lol!
Im doing away with the bold font. It felt too agressive. I only had it because, as I mentioned before I dont remember the details of these posts. So to answer fully the way I want to I copy paste your posts and answer and comment on all the individual stuff. Then I need to be able to differentiate between my post and your post and— this is all irrelevant again. Side-sidetracked, lol!
@mytwistedsoul
Ahhh— there goes my overthinking again. Honestly, I dont know why I made it sound so dramatic. As I said a bit ago, I didnt expect you to; youre not that kind of person.
Dont worry, I sorta take pride in my innocence. Yeah, I can tell when hes being intentionally being mean (not that he does that) and when hes just being blunt because that is the way he sees things, and its just his personality. What you say makes sense, about how he doesnt realize it can be hurtful to me. But sometimes I worry that Im trying to change him, which I dont want to do. I want to be accepting of who he is and celebrate that part (that sounds SUPER WEIRD, agh). That may tie in with the shame thing Wise One was talking about, idk.
Im realizing now that internalizing is an unhealthy habit of mine, and its been getting better yet worse. I used to be their therapist (I was happy to do it, I volunteered and apparently they thought I was good at it), and that was no fun. I thought Id escaped that role recently but now I think Ive still been extremely locked to them in that sense. I thought once I stopped being their therapist I would automatically open up to them, but its been really hard and I havent been succeeding.
The whole experience has made me realize that Im a very closed off person and I dont talk to people as openly as I should. I really thought this was the better way to handle things (well, I still think that— its so hard to let the light in even when you know theres something wrong). Now I can see that its damaging. And thanks to you and Jess I have some plans for the future and how to improve things.
Thanks! It still feels weird being this open, but your reactions have been fine so it must be alright to continue. Long posts are nice because you can tell the other person wants to talk to you and has put effort into it : )
Sorry I took so long to respond, I was sidetracked multiple times. Word of the post: Realizing
I feel anxious for no reason and now I cant sleep… sorry for posting so much
@ThePizza You were probably anxious because of what you posted and worried about it. You don't need to apologize for posting. You can post 50 times a day if you want. Or 100 . Just might take me a bit to read it lol! It's a good way to get things ou of your head. It's all good Pizza - no worries.
So last night - (sigh) I have alot of things weighing on my mind. Seems we have a "lost boy" wandering around. Which has us all upset and concerned. I know we need a gentle touch to reach him and it's killing me inside that I can't just grab him and bring him "home". Logan has reminded me a couple of times and Wise has sort of reinforced this by saying the same thing. Which as frustrating as it is, I respect both of them enough to take their advice.
I never wanted to be the way I am - I mean I can't think of anyone who would. Because I know what caused my mind to become so fractured. I mean - yeah ok, there are times I can be a little dense, a little slow. But I'm not entirely stupid. I know it's caused by abuse (there I said it) so with this new apprearance our numbers have grown to 8. It would be 9 but the oldest elder I had has merged with the The Red Queen. But how to reach this "lost boy" because it seems he's being guarded or protected by K. I think it's more guarded than protected since K is extremely difficult. Seems that we don't have to just tread lightly and gently into the worlds of "outsiders" We must also tread gently in our own worlds.
I have to head out soon to see Doc Z - so that's a good thing. For once theres only a little bit of argueing and noise about it. But that's just from K and the Queen. Right now - at this moment - I couldn't really give a flying - (ahem) about what they want. Which I know is wrong because We need to get them on our side but it's more important - ggrr - freaking steal my thoughts - sorry
@mytwistedsoul
It is admirable of you to leave him for now instead of taking him home like you want to, because you are doing what you know is best in the long run instead of what you want to do in order to help. (Or maybe I completely misread the situation. Im trying to find the right words for this, but I dont know if these are it.) Hopefully you get the chance to try and reach him soon.
Abuse— I think its best for my thoughts about that to be left unsaid. WelI, one thing— um, I understand it was probably very hard to say that out loud. Good job… no, that sounds condescending… what I mean to say is… well, nevermind. Were here (am I saying too much? Too little? Ahhhh) Treading carefully in your own world, huh? I know a lot about that.
Hey, youre good. No apology needed. Your thoughts are being stolen, you need some ninjas to get them back? Lol, sorry if this isnt the right time to joke. Even if its important to get them on your side, you matter too. Its always okay to do things for your own well-being.
I know this was a bit ago. How are you feeling now? Less tense, I hope. Take care
@ThePizza I get what you're trying to say, Thank you. It might take some time but yes you're right I will reach him eventually.
LOL! You are a trip! I enjoy talking with you so much! I can always use some ninja's - you been working on your skills? Nah jokes are good. Don't need to have things super serious - sometimes you just have to take a step back and enjoy some things.
I am feeling better thank you for asking.
How are you today?
@mytwistedsoul
Uh oh, now I feel turtle happy too XD Sorry Jess, dont mean to steal that from you… Ill have to find something else
Today has been okay. I had another test, but it wasnt too bad, just tiring. Ninja training consisted of learning how to ride purple elephants today, and that was an experience. Lol!
Trying to avoid things that trigger me, although I dont know if ignoring myself is really the best strategy. But Ill figure it out.
I look forward to talking on here, too. Its great that youve found a support system for yourself. I hope you have a fun time camping! Hopefully youre able to relax at least a little.
Thanks for checking in on me! Been feeling kinda lonely today
Doc Z spent time talking to K. At least until K started to get pi$$ed and told Doc to go F himself.
There's a world- within my world - within my world. An inner world to the inner world. According to K - this is where the "lost boy" is. Seems there are 4. They hold most of the worst trauma. God I hate that word. They don't have real names. They go by the emotions they hold. That Will change. Logan made a vow - things will be made better. We will bring them into the light. I agree. So do Ari and Alec.
K is a gatekeeper of sorts for that world.
Doc Z spent some time trying to talk with Alec - still no go. Apparently he was taught to be quiet, he doesn't like to come out - at all. Maybe with time he'll talk to us. He's 14. I have to admit - he seems to have a hell of a sense of humor and shows me some of the funniest pictures sometimes.
I know I am freaking exhausted. I kind of made plans for the weekend though, a little get away thing. We're gonna go camping. It's about a half day hike. Logan says theres a couple good fishing spots. And a place to go swimming. It's peaceful. I could use some peace. I kind of hate the idea of being off line for a little. But we wouldn't take off until tomorrow morning, so I'm sorry to say your stuck with me until then.
I hate to say it but I'm becoming a little dependant on this place and all of you in it. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I think it's a good thing. A support system for my system, lol. I really can't thank you all enough.
Wise One has great insights on these things. Couldn
Today's song is by Frenship - 1000 nights
Pre iced -
didn't realize the batter was going to be a trigger issue -
Just kind of had a thought - what's this going to be like when I'm 50 - 60 - 70? Wow. I mean it's no problem now, I can be immature but holy crap. If they don't age (and some might not) - how's that going to work? I can't be flying around the woods like a wild child - I'll bust a hip or something.
Lol!
Cursed
They tell me, it's all in my mind
They don't know, they're yet to try
My thoughts are safer inside
I pray it hurts less this time.
They tell me, it's all in my head
They don't know they have to check
What lies within is a mess
This pill could fix it, I guess.
Don't say, it's all in my brain
'Cause I can't help being this way
I feel the changes they've made
Now I don't feel the same.
Leave my secrets alone
They aren't for you to know
I hear the knock at my door
As they take me far from my home
They say, "It's better this way"
But the voices, they tell me I'm sane
They think they're cleansing my veins
As they hook me up in this place.
They say it starts in my soul
Makes its way down through my blood
It's been with me since I was young
But they can't explain what it's from
I think that I've had enough
I don't know who I can trust
Leave my secrets alone
They aren't for you to know
I hear the knock at my door
As they take me far from my home
They say, "It's better this way"
But the voices, they tell me I'm sane
They think they're cleansing my veins
As they hook me up in this place
Leave my secrets alone
They aren't for you to know
I hear the knock at my door
As they make me vacate my bones.
Good night for the blues
@mytwistedsoul
Very fitting
@ThePizza It is. How are you Pizza? Are you feeling a little better?
@mytwistedsoul
I was feeling better for a while but now things have gone downhill again.
@ThePizza I always wondered why it happens at night. Have you ever noticed that? It's like your mood sinks with the sun. I'm sorry you're having a hard night.
@mytwistedsoul
Thanks. I have noticed that, too. Its very strange, I guess maybe it happens because were slowing down and have less to distract us from things? Though definitely this time certain events caused it