Do I really have to forgive someone who hurt me???

@RumpleSteeleSkin
I'm usually ready to forgive pretty quickly, because the idea of someone who's done me wrong having power over my thoughts and emotions when they're not even there doing anything really winds me up. Deciding to do it and being capable of doing it seem to be quite seperate for me though. Sometimes I can decide that there's absolutely no benefit to caring about something anymore, but letting go is a constant fight every time the thought of them comes up.

1. To you what does forgiveness look and feel like?

Forgiveness to me is a way of freeing myself. Letting go of the hate, anger and hurt that I have for someone who caused me pain. It's no longer giving that person the power to cause me further pain. A state where I no longer feel the need to ignore the presence of that person or the wrong they did.

2. What steps for you does it take in order to forgive another person?

I'm not sure about this as I don't feel like I've ever made a good effort to do something about it. What I would like to do is to let go of the expectations I have. No amount of apology will make me forgive someone if I don't let go of the negative feelings I have.

3. What is some suggestions you like to share with a person who is going through the first steps of forgiving someone?

Take your time, rushing to forgive someone will have no impact if you're not truly ready for it. Forgiveness is never about the other person, it's all about you, your heart and soul. It's all about learning to let go when it gets too hard to hold on.

@RumpleSteeleSkin Interesting discussion! What is your definition of forgiveness?

For the record - anything I say below, I'm talking from personally experiencing large offenses, like abuse, trauma, betrayal, etc. For smaller offenses (I'm talking genuine mistakes people make or small things that the perp is then willing to genuinely apologize for and take steps to correct in future to not let it happen again) ... forgiveness is something I can more likely entertain in that regard, but for large offenses perpetrated by toxic people like psychoapth or narcissists, see my comments below.

I feel I have "moved on" to a certain extent mentally from a past abuser of years ago, but I wouldn't say I have come to a place of "forgiveness," at least I wouldn't label it as that. I was simply able to finally discover a label for it, feel relief, and then be able to put it down and concentrate on other things more.

Just the idea of forgiveness causes negative emotions in me, let alone if someone is telling me I must eventually "forgive" someone... that makes me angry and sad, like I have something (yet another task on my to do list, another thing in my back of my head that I have to eventually do) I have to do before I die, eventually, or else I am wrong. I really don't believe "forgiveness" (not even sure what your definition is of it?) is necessary for everyone, as you suggest. I honestly find relief in not putting pressure on myself to forgive. I do work on learning and growing as a result of things, but that's something I do in my spare time that I enjoy (I enjoy learning and bettering myself) so I don't look at it as "forgiveness." Even if someone never forgives someone, is that so bad? What if they don't - are you saying that that is unhealthy for them? You really have no right to say what is healthy for one person is also healthy for another.

It's akin to telling me, a crime victim, that I need to stop saying I'm a victim and call myself a "survivor." I am a survivor, in the literal sense... and I sometimes tell myself that (only have been able to do this years later, though). But I am also a victim that has to deal with the consequences of the offense for the rest of my life, and I don't really understand the narrative of telling a victim to "snap out of it" and start to call themselves a survivor instead (they say, because it's "healthier" or "empowering"), even if it is years later... I just don't think it's wrong to call myself a victim no matter what the time lapse is. I hardly ever feel "empowered" anyway in life, positive self-talk and affirmations usually don't help me, they an be helpful but not the be all end all, in fact they can sometimes make me feel worse.

I had a therapist tell me that forgiveness is like "unchaining yoruself from the person who wronged you." She said I was the one letting the perp stay chained to me and I had to basically cut the chain/the link between us. Even that I do not understand, or know how to become "unchained" from someone who has affected my life so drastically and permanently that I will always hold some form of anger or hatred for them. So to me, language surrounding forgiveness, like you have to do it (even if in your own time, which puts a deadline on it still) feels like victim shaming, blaming, putting the victim down.

I don't want to make a stink about this, but I feel a personal affront everytime someone tells me I need to forgive. (My abuser told me over and over again I needed to forgive him, my narcissistic dad has told me same thing - all of which have been unhealthy statements to try to keep me as their victim, essentially and allow me to KEEP being victimized over and over again, keep giving them chance after chance, AND it's also a tactic to make me feel like I am the bad guy because I am "wrong" in not just simply forgiving them for the millionth time). The notion of "forgiveness" also can have religious connotations to people and this was used by my abuser against me, basically saying if I don't forgive him and other perps around him, I am a bad Catholic/Christian/etc. which is even MORE disrepectful to the victim as it put me down even further using the power of religion. (To be clear I'm not religious anymore, but still am somewhat "spiritual"; I think there are immense flaws in religion in general and, having worked and volunteered at churches of various faiths, I have the belief that all they are at the end of the day businesses with often imperfect leaders [maybe worse], who burn out their volunteers; I beleive the former church I was raised into should be shut down entirely, the entire thing, but that's another book to write)

One notion that has given me (some, not complete) comfort, a concept of "forgiveness" that tries to stray from that awful word "forgiveness," that can and has caused so many people pain and anguish, is from @BurkeDevlin: "Forgiveness isn't saying that I'm in the wrong, it's saying the other person was/is in the wrong but I'm not going to let it affect my life anymore." To me this a more healthier notion to at least work towards. It gives a lot of validation to the victim and it doesn't tell them to do anything but better themselves.

To me, telling someone they must forgive, is telling them they are in the wrong somehow because you are telling them they must do this thing, forgiveness, to be in the right again.

To answer the rest of your questions: the steps I take to get myself on a better path (I refuse to really use the word "forgive") is basically to analyze what happened (if it's ongoing, like something toxic in my life is ongoing at the moment, I try to make it right but sometimes even that is impossible), come to a point of understanding it completely (both the perp's role in it and my role), what I can learn from it so it never happens again, and eventually, begin to focus on positive things in my life that can help propel/distract me forward and further away from the trauma/pain/anger etc. But I am never fully 24/7 cured years later or anything... I will struggle to to better myself for the rest of my life and never really will feel fully healed, so to speak.

Rumple, if you have a better thread on forgiveness, meaning, less telling someone they need to forgive, please share as I'd like to look at that instead. I feel like we may have discussed this before but can't remember. I was a little hopeful reading your thread here where you say "NO!!!" - what is that no to? To not forgiving until ready? That still means someone has to eventually forgive.

@RumpleSteeleSkin

1. To you what does forgiveness look and feel like?.....It doesn't really mean a "specific" thing to me, but I guess it would be feeling better emotionally....& that whoever I had the issue with can move "forward" instead of stuck in the emotions that got us to that negative place.

2. What steps for you does it take in order to forgive another person?.....It depends on the "Person" that the issue is with. If its with Family, then its usually a much shorter time and doesn't last long. But with others, it can take a long time if even at all depending on the issue that got us there.

3. What is some suggestions you like to share with a person who is going through the first steps of forgiving someone?.....Not really sure other than to say if its somebody really "Close" to you (Family, or Friend) to do your best to forgive and move on "Quickly". Try not to stay in those feelings too long. Time is short. So don't waste it on those you love or care for being angry, upset or unforgiving if you can help it.

@RumpleSteeleSkin

Hiya rumple, great to see you again!

Boy does this hit home!

I don't really know Exactly where I am on forgiving. At least when it comes to 1 certain person.

I don't want to hate, but Sometimes I think how can I not? They took so much from us. Idk if I can forgive I honestly not sure I want to. Part of me feels horrible when I think about hateing them, but I think y shouldn't I how can I even think about forgiving. I have so many conflicting thoughts and emotions, it's all so confusing.

This is a Good read. I'm good at forgiving others but never myself. It's something that I've had and I've tried to work on for many years.