"An engaging topic with Unc and Twist" Let's talk about - Dopamine, the myth, the legend!
This is a podcast type thread With Unc & twist. Please join us with your thoughts and conversations!
Dopamine is a crucial neurotransmitter and hormone, often called the "feel-good" chemical" It acts as a messenger between nerve cells, powering the brain's reward system, motivation, pleasure, and motor control. It reinforces survival behaviors (like eating) by creating pleasure, but also influences learning, mood, attention, and sleep. Think of it like Brain Candy. Everyone likes candy, right?
When dopamine levels are low some symptoms can be :
Lack of motivation, “the drive.”
Tired
Poor concentration
Moodiness or anxiousness
No pleasure from previously enjoyable experiences.
Depression and/or
feelings of hopelessness
Can you think of a
time you were highly motivated to get something (like food, a sale item, or a
social media "like") but felt little pleasure once you actually got
it? You're welcome to share if you're comfortable 😊
@mytwistedsoul
Hi Twist, You did an awesome job with the introduction to this thread. Fantastic, thank you so much.
You and I were talking a few weeks ago and we got to talking about dopamine because research did a little bit and it made a lot of sense to me, and you wanted to know some more about it.
We decided if we were have conversations about this or even have conversations about other things, it would be a good idea to share them with the community. And that's what led to the fun idea of a topic with Unk & Twist.
And even it's a conversation between you and I, We both encourage other members to jump in on the conversation. I think I'm going to take the liberty highlight my dialog in blue and highlight your dialog in green. I think it'll make it fun and easier for us And others to follow our conversation.
This would have been a scratch pad question but I figured it was time to step out of this scratch pad and into the real world. Let me know what you think about the color coordination.
You previously had some good points on the scratch pad so I copied and pasted them here. I guess this is a good place to start the conversation About dopamine.
(From Twist) I'm looking forward to learning more about this. I definitely
know that my reward system is either broken or non-existent.
I've seen a lot of things
online for patches and supplements but there's not a whole lot of proof that
they actually work. And I prefer a more natural or homeopathic approach to
things. I remember you mentioned diet and how that can raise dopamine levels
It's been so long or
maybe never, since I've felt motivated or any pleasure from anything. Anything
that resembles happiness is so fleeting. I do what has to be done because
someone has to do it lol
What led you to this discovery?
What led me to this discovery? There is a simple answer which I will share in a minute And then there is a real answer. I guess, what led me to this discovery was my absolute frustration I'm not feeling motivated. I can go back onto 7 cups and look at my history and see when I started But the whole time I started here it has been a struggle from one day to the next. I cannot understand why other people seemed to have the energy to do 100 things And it be normal.
This frustration led me to ask AI, " What I could do to imitate other people that seemed to have it together". Its important to understand that I'm extremely independent and I wasn't needing to be accepted or be like other people, I just wanted to have the mind set that worked for other people.
AI gave me some real life answers, solutions, reasons and even scenerios of my childhood the were 100% correct.
The part about the childhood It is the most significant because it explained to me how my dopamine motor never got developed in childhood and so it doesn't work right now.
It also explained to me, the difference between predopamine Levels and post dopamine levels. There is a huge significance between the two. Sadly when I went back to my AI history, I didn't realize that the history got deleted after 72 hours and so my entire discussion about dopamine was erased.
But it had such a strong lasting effect on me, I can remember a lot of and will continue to share for more of it my time allows.
HEY TWIST... WE DID IT, Finally got it started.
PS.. Understanding the effect of dopamine has totally changed my mindset and my life for the past month. I am proof we can repair and start our dopamine motors again.
@IsayUncle Thank you! I just put your idea into words and it's an interesting topic! I hope people join in! I think there's a lot we can all learn.
@mytwistedsoul
Topic: Dopamine 4/7/26
MY QUESTION TO GOOGLE AI
My ability to produce natural dopamine seems limited. I never have any motivation. From a dopamine perspective, how did this happen?
My childhood was very dysfunctional.
A single father on welfare trying to raise 7 children with me being the youngest son. He was a heavy handed disciplinarian and verbally aggressive. There were few acts of acceptance, or approval. Self-reliance was encouraged but, NOT getting acknowledged for good actions was normal.
RESPONCE FROM GOOGLE AI
In the context of a dysfunctional childhood, your brain’s dopamine system likely adapted to survive your environment rather than to seek rewards. Dopamine is not just about "pleasure"; it is the neurotransmitter of motivation and anticipation. It tells the brain: "That thing is worth the effort."
From a neurobiological perspective, here is how your upbringing may have "recalibrated" your dopamine levels:
1. The "Reward Void" (Lack of Positive Reinforcement)
In a healthy environment, a child receives a dopamine spike when a parent acknowledges a job well done. This "reward" teaches the brain to associate effort with a feel-good chemical.
The Impact: Because you were rarely acknowledged for good actions, your brain never built the neural "tracks" that link effort to reward. If "good" behavior resulted in nothing, your brain learned to stop wasting energy (dopamine) on motivation.
2. High Cortisol vs. Low Dopamine
Growing up with a "heavy-handed" and "verbally aggressive" father kept your nervous system in a state of chronic stress. This floods the body with cortisol (the stress hormone).
The Impact: Chronic cortisol is toxic to dopamine neurons. High stress over long periods can "downregulate" (reduce) the number of dopamine receptors. Essentially, your brain turned down its volume on dopamine to protect itself from the constant noise of stress.
3. Survival Over Mastery
Dopamine is used for two things: Survival (finding food/avoiding pain) and Mastery (learning/hobbies/goals).
The Impact: In a household with seven children and a volatile father, your brain stayed in survival mode. Survival-based dopamine is "low-tonic," meaning it’s just enough to keep you alert for threats. You likely never had the "safety" required to develop the high-burst dopamine associated with ambition or "mastery."
4. The "Self-Reliance" Trap
When self-reliance is forced through neglect or fear rather than encouraged through support, it becomes a defense mechanism.
The Impact: You may have developed Anhedonia—the inability to feel pleasure. If seeking approval always led to disappointment, your brain may have "muted" your desire for anything at all to prevent the pain of not getting it.
The Result: Low "Baseline" Dopamine
You aren't necessarily "broken," but your baseline dopamine is likely set very low. Your brain is waiting for a "threat" to react to, rather than a "goal" to move toward. This feels like a total lack of "get-up-and-go" because your brain doesn't believe the effort will result in a payoff.
To help me give you more specific insights, are you currently finding that you struggle more with starting a task or finishing it once you've begun?
This was such an important discovery for me. I am 60 plus years old in my entire life I blame myself for not being good enough. I think one of the first questions I asked google AI was how come other people seem excel, and no matter how much I wanted it to I had no power behind my desire.
Realizing or discovering this dopamine angle has changed life for the past month. Ways to rebuild the dopamine mechanism or neuropaths. And is this conversation continues we will continue explore the possibilities.
@IsayUncle This makes a lot of sense to me Uncle. Being raised in such a way, where there was silent encouragement to be self reliant but never any praise or acknowledgement for the good things you did. As the youngest son you probably looked towards your older siblings too for guidance and approval and didn't receive any. It was similar in my house too.
@mytwistedsoul
If you care to share, do you have any siblings and where do you fit into the picture? I have to admit I did have some siblings that tried to take care of me but then I had others that developed a dislike for me. Typical sibling rivalry stuff, I think. I think the biggest impact on my personality and how I am today was the gross insecurity that I developed throughout my childhood. And how it gradually alienated not only my sibling’s, but, all social interaction in general.
But, not wanting to drift too far from the dopamine angle. Needless to say, there was little love expressed and little encouragement. And apparently that had a big effect about developing dopamine neuropaths.
I can tell you the reason that this had such a big effect on me, or recently realizing and why the understanding of it has so totally influenced me in a better direction. Back when I started with Seven Cups several years ago, I was just trying to figure out how to get out of bed and move in a direction.
I have fought for years just trying to stay on task regardless of the monotony of it And this fits into what you were talking about too about not being able to or even finish tasks. That finishing test is a good subject to talk about also.
Back to the reason this has had such a profound effect on me, as I was at the point of giving up and wondering, like why was I trying so hard? I was just thinking about selling everything I had, and hitting the road Jack. I think discovering this dopamine was the accumulation of a perfect storm for me.
I thought my deficiencies were all about me and the fact that I wasn’t good enough or strong enough whatever not-enough. I’m not the type of person that self-deprecates and likes to wallow in my own self-pity but that doesn’t mean I don’t do it sometimes, especially as depression starts to build.
The discovery of this lack of dopamine neuropaths, took All of the blame off of me and contributed it to a logical point of view. But the biggest discovery is that I can rebuild these dopamine neuropaths and this is mind blowing.
When I said this discovery came at a time of the perfect storm, I was talking about the perfect storm of effort, to do lists, reasons and discouragement, discipline and determination. Without heightened, Initiative These things were becoming less and less important and I was getting tired of blaming myself.
Now I can legitimately say,” OK, my dopamine levels are low and I’m not in the mood of doing this, and then make a decision, not based on insecurity but based whether I want this thing done or not and what the consequences are. The next biggest thing I learned was if I don’t have the dopamine, I have to act like a robot and just do the thing….. The reward in this is the dopamine neuropaths start to rebuild. (This is why my last month was better, Because I think that is actually working).
"How low dopamine can affect your feelings of gratitude and sense of pride." So, what did you find out about feelings of gratitude and sense of pride? I haven't touched on those yet.
I think this is gonna be such an interesting topic. Totally out of the blue, I also learned of another dopamine effect. It was called, "dopamine hunger". It has to do with eating. I thought that was interesting, that it popped up in a completely irrelevant conversation. Something to explore later.
@IsayUncle I'm an only child. Neither of my parents actually liked kids. The whole family is pretty abusive. There was never any praise or encouragement in the house. I wasn't allowed to have friends so my social skills are pretty bad. I've found it's easier to socialize here because I can take my time with finding the right words.
@mytwistedsoul
Hey Twist, Your Last paragraph indicated how quickly the appreciation passed if there's any at all. And I think that is a pretty big deal and a good point. It's a reality for me too. But I think it's common for a lot of people for different reasons.
The reason I say that is, Years ago, when I was studying meditation and the philosophy of Buddhism, A recurring reminder during meditation is that, "Bad things will stick to your brain like velcro", While "Good things will pass through, like water through your fingers". (Meditation helps to rebalance this phenomana)
I've never forgotten that visualization. And I only bring it up now to point out, that a certain amount of sustained appreciation time, or lack of, could be naturally normal.
But with that said, The lack of dopamine definitely plays a huge role, and I would say makes it worse and compounded.
I queried AI google, The following question:
I have very little ambition to start anything or even to finish things. It's like I don't have any gratitude or thankfulness for the things that I do have and my ability to complete things. Perhaps another way of putting it, is I have little appreciation for my accomplishments. Can this be a result of low dopamine, and if so, is it low Pre-dopamine or low Post-dopamine.
AI Google Response:
Yes, your difficulty starting and finishing tasks—as well as your struggle to feel gratitude or appreciation for your achievements—is a classic sign of dopamine signaling dysfunction linked to childhood adversity.
ubiehealth.com +2
In terms of whether this is "pre-dopamine" or "post-dopamine," the answer is likely both, as childhood trauma can impact the entire "lifecycle" of the neurotransmitter.
1. Pre-Dopamine: Production and Release
"Pre-dopamine" refers to everything that happens before the chemical reaches the next neuron, including how much is made and how it is released.
PubMed Central (PMC) (.gov) +2
- Blunted Production: Chronic stress from a volatile upbringing can suppress the baseline production of dopamine. If your brain isn't producing enough "starting" dopamine, you experience avolition—a total lack of drive to begin tasks.
- The Lack of "Push": Presynaptic dopamine is what provides the energy to overcome the "cost" of a task. When this is low, your brain evaluates the effort of a task as "too high" compared to any potential reward, leading to chronic procrastination.
Sage Journals +4
2. Post-Dopamine: Receptor Sensitivity and Appreciation
"Post-dopamine" refers to the receptors (the "mitts") that catch the dopamine. This is where appreciation and gratitude live.
American Brain Foundation +3
- Receptor Downregulation: If you grew up in an environment where good actions were never acknowledged, your brain's "reward center" (the striatum) likely became less sensitive. Research shows that childhood maltreatment can lead to reduced receptor availability, meaning even when you do accomplish something, your brain doesn't have enough "catchers" to feel the satisfaction.
- Why You Can't Feel "Grateful": Gratitude requires a dopamine spike in response to a positive outcome. If your receptors are "deaf" to these spikes because they were trained to expect nothing, you will feel a sense of anhedonia—the inability to feel pleasure or satisfaction from things you know you "should" be proud of.
PubMed Central (PMC) (.gov) +8
Summary of the "Dopamine Gap"
|
Phase |
Issue |
Real-World Feeling |
|
Pre-Dopamine |
Low Synthesis/Release |
"I can't even get off the couch to start this." |
|
Post-Dopamine |
Weak Receptor Sensitivity |
"I finished it, but I don't feel anything. It doesn't matter." |
This isn't a character flaw; it's a Reward Deficiency Syndrome (RDS). Your brain effectively learned that effort does not equal reward, so it "unplugged" the motivation circuit to save energy.
Listed below are the sites AI referenced for information.
ubiehealth.com +2
PubMed Central (PMC) (.gov) +2
Sage Journals +4
American Brain Foundation +3
PubMed Central (PMC) (.gov) +8
@IsayUncle Talk about a snails pace again 😅
@mytwistedsoul
I've heard that too. How bad things stick with us more than good things do. And that for each bad thing we hear it takes dozens more good things to counterbalance the bad.
True. Dealing with that can also be countered by downplaying the bad…. Or lowering its significance and importance. If and when we can. Obviously, not doable on all things but it can reduce the % of bad brain throughout the day, and every little bit helps.
It makes sense that the things we struggle with now can be traced back to childhood experiences. Those experiences were the building blocks for our foundation. Although even though it makes sense, it doesn't make it any easier to rebuild.
Talking about childhood, leads me to thinking about social interaction and I don’t do that too well.
My insecurities Led me into a life of looking for approval, which led me to trying to do everything perfectly, which led me to a narcissistic leaning personality, which of course alienates everyone.
Where the dopamine fits into the conversation, I didn’t do things because I was encouraged to do things, or had a personal a feeling of achievement or anything like that. I guess I spent my entire life looking for approval, (not knowing that at the time), And of course never getting it or not getting enough of it Wasted all those years without developing a healthy pre-dopamine machine.
Recently I've read how a stressful environment can also cause our brains to lower its baseline dopamine to compensate, making natural, small accomplishments feel meaningless. We're both self employed and that brings its own stress and worry.
It makes sense too that it would involve both pre and post dopamine, especially with a history of adverse childhood experiences. Low "Pre-Dopamine" affects our motivation and anticipation and "Post-Dopamine" affects our satisfaction and gratitude.
Talking about how a stressful environment can cause our brains to lower its baseline dopamine is a good observation. Some form of defense mechanism to ward off disappointment. And I guess in a balanced dopamine mind, it would work well But perhaps not so much if we lack the dopamine anyway.
Learning about is pre-dopamine and dopamine affect Has made a huge difference for me. It flipped a switch in my brain.
The reason it has helped me so much, is because it makes sense. It’s a logical and linear explanation of my inability for motivation. Previously I thought it was just me being weak, and so I wasted a lot of time trying to be stronger and if you think about it, Isn’t that the same science and dynamics of my entire life. Looking for approval of myself. For me, it was a profound realization.
Hey Twist, See scratch pad.
@IsayUncle The "Pre-Dopamine Machine" phrase led me to learn new words. Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic Motivation. Healthy motivation usually comes from within (intrinsic - feeling good about a job well done). You were operating solely on extrinsic motivation (approval from others) Because we were looking for approval rather than personal achievement, we never learned to trigger dopamine from small, personal victories.
@IsayUncle
Your prompt reminds me of diminishing marginal utility
@Caelis
Hi Csalis, Thanks for your input. I apologize for the delayed response. Twist and I Have adopted a method Of, what we like to call, "A snail's pace conversation". 😁
I'll have to admit, I had never heard of "diminishing marginal utility", (DMP), so I had to look it up. You bring up a real good point about not being able finish a task.
From a quick research, DMP is more of a physical reason of reality from doing a repeated a chore that gets monotonous and loses the natural excitement, when starting the task. Dopamine is more of a neuropothic approach towards the same convesation.
With that said, Dopamine can interact and effect The DMP Dilemma.
Thanks again for a great point of view.
@IsayUncle and thanks to you for the in-depth explanation. Cheers!
@Caelis
NP, Cheers! You're welcome to stay in the conversation! ☺️
Yes when I got hurt at work and couldn't work anymore. It makes me helpless. Still trying to cope and now I have just fought I have renal failure too. I try to remind myself I am not the center of the universe but sometimes it is hard. I just have to keep trudging.
@tsparksgail
Yea, it's so hard sometimess, I'm sorry. I think it's important to know that you are the center of your universe. Refind your center start to rebalance your situation You can do it.
Yes when I got hurt at work and couldn't work anymore. It makes me helpless. Still trying to cope and now I have just fought I have renal failure too. I try to remind myself I am not the center of the universe but sometimes it is hard. I just have to keep trudging.
