The Lonely Narcisisst Club Band
I'm an older but active gentleman.
I continue to Alienate people. When all I want to do is help.
Reflection shows how I have alienated all that have crossed my path since grade school.
I see it as plain as day but I still misstep instictively and consistently.
I have become a cowardly narcissist and never seeing it for so many years is mind blowing.
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I want to express the making of a cowardly narcissist (myself). Others may differ.
I want to be a crybaby about it.
I want to talk about daily encounters where I failed empathy.
I'd like to talk about the benefits of a healthy narcissistic point of view.
I want to learn instantaneous empathy for others.... Instead of solutions for them.
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I welcome any and all conversations.
Happy New Year Ya'll. 😀.
I did not resolve my relationship with my niece this year but it is gonna be a focal point for next year.
I was waiting until I resolved my niece issue before interacting with the family but this year I changed that tact because so much time is going by (3+ years), I thought it was time to reach out to other family members.
That was a good move. I found several family members eager re-engage. But more revealing was finding the family members that just have a hateful heart in general and not necessarily in regards to me for any other reason but to pass judgment.
I feel like for the first time, I understand more what happened in depth behind the scenes. The damage is done but understanding it will help me navigate it better.
Thank you guys for being a positive reinforcement..... And this journey will surely continue into next year but I'm confident it will be resolved and I'm really looking forward to that regardless of how it gets resolved. It's season has come. 🙂
@IsayUncle
Hello! Makes sense that you felt like putting the niece issue on the back burner and focusing on the rest of the family rather than delaying any longer.
Sounds like the responses from the family were productive in both cases:
-People interested in re-engaging - yay
-People found to be deeply judgmental and impossible to restart a relationship with - uncomfortable/painful but possibly helpful in that you're able to say "I tried my best", give up, and refocus your energy/affection where it can have some positive impact
Hoping that this coming year continues to build on last year and that you get the evolution and resolution you're looking for. 😊
@QuietMagic
Happy New Year! 😃. I hope things are treating you well and you have a reinvigorated start for the new year.
Thanks for your input. I think my next step will be a concentrated but selfless effort to force a contact between my niece and myself.
When I use the word selfless and force, it's more like, an intentional last gasp or you might say being sure that I turned over each stone. Instead of letting her silence treatment dictate the situation between us (forever more), try to get some dialogue so that there is a clear understanding between us. Positve or Negative.
Selfless in my eyes, is doing this so she does not continue to live with this black mark on her heart. It could be argued, I'm assuming she has a black mark on her heart. That may be true but I think it is a very good assumption.
Forced contact we'll be using other family members to reach out to her. Primarily, her significant other who has been a long time boyfriend/husband type. I have chosen not to discuss the situation with other family members in the past because it was important to me, to keep it between us.
I just realized that I hadn't finished the story about what happened between us. In short, I thought my niece and I were very close. And we truly were on many levels.
She was working on her real estate license so I thought it was a great idea to let her try to sell our house. There are several conditions that had to be addressed before the sale of the house. The most important one was getting my nephew and his family out of the house to make the sale.
I had not realized how much my niece had grown to dislike me and that goes into my narcissistic personality and family angst against me. My niece sided with my Ex (Our seperation was in process) in the process of selling our house. It was all done with judgement, greed and harshness but it got done. I was excised from the equation.... (I know, sour grapes, right? Maybe, but not quite just that.)
That event completely exposed the true nature of, and broke our trust with each other. We have not spoken since and it's negative energy impacts other cousins, my other nieces and nephews.
So this situation has had a big negative impact on the entire family environment. (Not only In regards to my own realm, but also an additional cloud overall). Maybe not significant anymore while I'm out of view, but coming into view could generate bad feelings if there's no attempt at an understanding if not a resolution.
@cloudysummer (shared - rest of story) and Happy New Year to you 😀.
@Egoassist
Thank you!
Sorry that the niece sided with your ex, and makes sense that that would have caused a rift between the two of you. (And in terms of what you mentioned of it creating negative energy within the family in general, I guess it causes some general awkwardness for two people within the family to have a rift?)
You're hoping to try to reconnect and start over if possible, with the idea being that if you were able to talk with her, there could be some mutual understanding. And this feels like something you'd want to try to resolve now while you're in the process of reaching out to the rest of the family--so that it doesn't seem like you're avoiding her or singling her out by not contacting her.
I'm wondering about the "forced contact" strategy and the "black mark"/"selflessness". Not sure I fully understood, but going to take some guesses/make some assumptions and you can let me know if this is accurate or not.
1) "Forced contact": you want to reach out to your niece through her significant other because you don't have any other way of getting into contact with her (e.g. she refuses to talk to you). And if that doesn't work, then at least you'll have "turned over every stone" and tried what you could.
2) "Black mark"/"selflessness": by the black mark, you mean that she has a lot of animosity toward you that doesn't need to be there. What makes this effort feel selfless is this idea of "she has a lot of friction/tension related to me that doesn't need to be there; if we're able to figure things out, it'll make things more harmonious, not only between us but within the family in general".
@QuietMagic
Hi Quiet, I hope your new year beginning is treating you well. Thank you again for another clear and concise interpretation what I'm trying to say. You have nailed it, as usual. 😄. Not only that, you put things into words that are easier to relate to than the way I say them.
"2) "Black mark"/"selflessness": by the black mark, you mean that she has a lot of animosity toward you that doesn't need to be there. What makes this effort feel selfless is this idea of "she has a lot of friction/tension related to me that doesn't need to be there; if we're able to figure things out, it'll make things more harmonious, not only between us but within the family in general".
These particular sentences and structure are perfect for me. It's something easy for me to share with others and my Niece that makes it relatable and understandable of why I want to pursue a resolution. It is very accurate and it goes beyond just hurt feelings and judgmental reflections.
Being insecure and feeling inferior my entire life span, I adopted these common acts of "trying to please" and "craving attention". In the social world, but more importantly (my world), I think these actions have caused dislike and animosity towards me.
Basically, people in general just don't like me after they get to know me. And there's conversations with others that bolster the same perspective. The one thing I can say about myself, is that I've never passed harsh judgment on others or perpetuated negative rumor talk towards others. I've always tried to tamp things down and just tried a more understanding/peaceful perspective in bad situations. (I realize now, that this has actually alienated me further because people in conflict are looking for other people to get on thier side).
“A friend to all is a friend to none.” Aristotle
I can't say that my peaceful approach was altruistic because i think it was anchored more by insecurity and cowardice. Being afraid to alienate anyone.
But, with that said, I am proud of myself for never getting sucked into pointless, hateful, judgmental conversations just to be included in a group of people. It is good that I have talked with some family members and found a sense of acceptance, while at the same time understanding why I have alienated others or why others have alienated me, may be more accurate.
My eagerness for re-involvement has actually turned into an altruistic motive. (It'a not about my insecurity anymore). My issue with my niece is actually a separate Entity from all the negative energy that I see, in general, within my family environment. Out of the bad comes the good and this is the good that is developing because of the bad situation with my niece.
I'm still not sure how to approach the animosity and negative energy that I created because of my personality flaws in the past but I do know, that I will approach them honestly with the understanding that I may not be able to resolve how people feel about me from my past.
I guess this post has mixed and mingled my narcissistic personality interpretation with the solution to talking to my niece. But, it really is that complicated for me, so thanks for listening. 😃
@Egoassist
Hey, glad that I managed to come up with an accurate summary. 😊
From what you've said, earlier in your life, you were struggling a lot with feeling insecure and feeling afraid of conflict or people disliking you. As a result of this, you took a "people-pleasing" approach to conversations with others. And ironically, that created some conflict with certain people.
***
I'd say that something that really stands out in what you wrote is that... there's a sort of value-based, principled, ethical stance there. "I don't want to say mean, harmful, inaccurate, judgmental things that might hurt somebody. And if me refusing to do that means that I'm not on quite as good terms with someone whose primary way of forming friendships is by elevating themselves at the expense of others and spreading rumors in a self-serving way... then I'm willing to be disliked or a bit alienated/disconnected from people like that. That's not who I am and not who I want to be. I'm not perfect, but I'm proud of myself for not being someone who acts like that. I genuinely care about being understanding and maintaining peace."
From that angle, it sounds like you didn't really do anything wrong? Your family was petty and judgmental, they wanted you to join in, you weren't willing to do that, and that led to alienation and them disliking you. (Unless if there are other flaws/actions from your side you're thinking of that might have contributed to the conflict?)
@Quietmagic @cloudysummer
Hey you two, Just a shoutout to say Happy Spring. I hope the warmer conditions and milder weather brings you encouragement and contentment on the currents of the seasonal wind changes.
OK, a bit corny but you know what I mean. Happy Spring!
Just wanted to say hey, and I do value your frank perspective on things. It's invaluable. I have not approached the issue again, and it continues to be a burden or anchor on progress but I am getting closer to figureing it out so, just wanted to say, you continue to encourage me, even with my absence.
thanks, it's good knowing you're there. 😀
@Egoassist
😀 Ah yes, the refreshing winds of ephemerality... [insert some poetic stuff] 💜
Hope that you have a great spring also. If you ever want to share about what's been happening (or not happening) with the family/re-connection situation, feel free to. Sometimes even if there's no outwardly visible change, things might still be shifting around or building pressure internally.
@QuietMagic
Thanks.
And what a great word, "ephemerality". It's good to appreciate passing changes and the wonderful possibilities from impermanence amongst all our efforts to build lasting foundations.
Have a great week! 😀
@Egoassist
Hola, Egoassist.
Aprecio mucho tu sinceridad y tu disposición a reflexionar sobre ti mismo. No es fácil reconocer patrones de comportamiento, especialmente cuando pueden estar afectando nuestras relaciones. Pero el hecho de que estés dispuesto a hablar de esto y buscar una forma de aprender empatía dice mucho sobre tu carácter.
El narcisismo es un término que a menudo se usa de manera negativa, pero también puede tener matices. La autoconciencia que tienes ahora te da una oportunidad única para transformar la forma en que te relacionas con los demás. Quizás no se trata de borrar quién eres, sino de encontrar un equilibrio entre cuidar de ti mismo y conectar con los demás de manera más genuina.
Si quieres compartir ejemplos o reflexionar sobre momentos en los que crees que la empatía te falló, aquí estoy para escuchar sin juzgar. A veces, el simple hecho de verbalizarlo nos ayuda a comprendernos mejor. Estoy seguro de que no estás solo en este proceso, y estoy aquí si quieres seguir conversando.
@AlmaOyente
Just translating to English (solo traduciendo al inglés):
"I really appreciate your sincerity and your willingness to reflect on yourself. It's not easy to recognize behavior patterns, especially when they might be affecting our relationships. But the fact that you are willing to talk about this and look for a way to learn empathy says a lot about your character.
Narcissism is a term that is often used negatively, but it can also have nuances. The self-awareness you have now gives you a unique opportunity to transform the way you relate to others. Perhaps it's not about erasing who you are, but about finding a balance between taking care of yourself and connecting with others in a more genuine way.
If you want to share examples or reflect on moments in which you think empathy failed you, I'm here to listen without judgment. Sometimes, simply verbalizing it helps us understand ourselves better. I'm sure you're not alone in this process, and I'm here if you want to continue talking."
@QuietMagic
Thanks for translating and helping. That gave me the idea to use google translate. I wouldn't have thought of that. thxs again. have a great day!
@AlmaOyente
Muchas gracias por tu amabilidad. 🙏.
The only benificial side to narcissism is the self preservation mechanism of believing in oneself.
El único lado beneficioso del narcisismo es el mecanismo de autoconservación de creer en uno mismo.
What do you guys Think? I trust your constuctive insights.
I finally was able to get my thoughts together enough to sift out the important intention. As I knew, my constant desire would find a path of it's own, it did as i continued t navigate family conversations.
I did send her and her mate a short text last week, testing the waters with no response. I also (for the first time) shared my feelings with my sister and her husband. In depth, non critical and private.
This is me wrapping this up to final conclusion for myself.
I do believe you have amazing input and you helped me get this far, so please, feel free to have a say. We're wrapping this up.
@Quietmagic @Cloudysummer
Hey, forgot to tag you guys earlier. Hope ur having a good day, My letter sounds and feels good to me but I'm very unsure of how it comes out to others. You two have proven to be very clear headed. (Maybe you can help me with that in the future, seriously), But for now, As your time allows, What do you think of the letter?
And as fate would have it..... Ready to wind this up..... I just learned my Niece is hiking the appalacian for, nobody knows how long.... (It's selfish of me to wish she had this earlier to ponder on her self discovery.) but anyway......
thanks for your input.
@Egoassist
That's a very heartfelt and richly emotional letter. 💜
I don't really feel like I can give traditional feedback in the same way as if I were proofreading an essay. It's not something where there's a single linear objective. I'm going to follow my instincts and do something really different.
***
I feel like a pretty shallow/soulless person for doing this, but have tried to decompose what you wrote into some core ideas/concepts:
"1) I'm sorry I failed you as an uncle. The specific way in which I failed was that I wasn't an understanding enough person. I've been working on getting better at listening and understanding others, but understandably I'm still not perfect since my baseline self had a long way to go."
2) I care about you and always have, I have no negative feelings toward you, and my feelings of caring for you have not changed at all over the years. The reason I didn't contact you for a few years was just because I've been trying to work through my own personal issues/feelings.
3) It's caused me a lot of pain and guilt to know that I hurt you. Please, for my sake, I ask that you heal, grow, flourish, and release any trauma you might have related to me and become the best version of yourself. Otherwise, I'll feel really bad knowing that I permanently damaged someone."
***
And now to debauch my soul even further, going to put myself into the shoes of someone on the receiving end who I assume is bitter, skeptical, angry, maybe uncharitable/unempathetic due to feeling defensive, etc. and try to simulate how they might react to that. I don't really understand the situation or what their feelings are like though, so it's just a lot of projection.
"1) I don't really care so much about what personal growth you're going through, though if that's been happening then I'm glad you're doing what you need to do. I don't feel like congratulating you for the work you're doing. You doing stuff that helps you be happier or feel less destructive is your business, not mine.
If I care about anything, it's only how this affects our relationship going forward: whether I'll be able to interact with you without things going wrong in the same way as before. Have things changed enough that it feels like it's worthwhile for me to take the risk of connecting with you? I'm trying to read for subtle signs in your letter itself to see whether your mindset has changed... whether I can expect a different experience from before if I try to interact with you, or if it feels like the things that left a bad taste before and the patterns/dynamics from the past are still there and going to re-activate in current interactions.
2) I don't really care about your positive feelings toward me or what you went through over the past few years. Those are your own feelings, but it doesn't have anything to do with my feelings. They don't really pertain to me, unless if the dynamic between us is going to be different now.
If you're saying that you've felt the same way all these years, then maybe that shows how ineffective those types of feelings are unless if they're grounded in a pretty detailed understanding of what the other person wants. It's possible to have the best intentions in the world and still hurt someone else or not get along well with someone else. What matters isn't purity of intention, but how those intentions translate into actual results/impact. The driving factor is, do I feel good interacting with you and like I have something to gain from that interaction? That's what I'm trying to evaluate.
3) You inviting me to heal and become the best version of myself... almost makes me want to deteriorate, devolve, and become a decrepit mess just to spite you. That would be my way of maintaining autonomy and self-ownership... to say "I'm not going to be happy just because you ask me to. I'll be unhappy just to prove that you don't own my happiness. Leave me alone and let me be what I am." My feelings are my own. I won't change my feelings to suit someone else's fancy. If I want to be full of blistering rage or pointless depression, then that is what I will be. Then those feelings will disappear when they're ready to and not a moment sooner. Things happen when they're meant to happen.
I don't care about how my well-being or lack thereof affects you. My job is to live and be happy, if I feel like it. Your job is to tend to your own feelings. I'm not responsible for your sorrow, your guilt, and the turmoil plaguing you as you imagine my heart with a festering black spot. People hurt other people. It's certainly appreciated if you understand and acknowledge that you might have affected me in certain ways. But if I keep that black spot forever and fail to do anything about it, that is my fault not yours. It's my responsibility to figure that out. And actually I might have an easier time sorting through that if you aren't vigorously encouraging me and trying to be part of that process, given that I don't really trust you or feel comfortable digging into the vulnerability of all of that around you."
@QuietMagic
First of all, thanks for tackling the awkward situation for my sake. I’m sorry it made you feel, “like a pretty shallow/soulless person”. Your response is exactly what I was asking for. I’m sorry I put you in that very hard position. But thank you for being brave and helping me out.
I was looking for that decomposition and you did it with tact and understanding. On a very good note, I was already prepared for the latter part of your decomposition where my intentions or feelings are no concern of the recipient.
You can be exactly right about all those emotions but I do think this letter opens the door for healing choices. I know that’s as far as I can go. I’m prepared for the possible continued isolation but my sincerity is out there now, and unwavering.
I envy your clear thinking and don’t think you should ever feel shallow or soulless for helping people see a clearer way of understanding things.
As always, Thanks for taking the time! (and helping me 100 fold).
I hope you have a great day and a wonderful week! 😃🤗.
@IsayUncle
Thanks for the reassurance of basically "nope, I did want a more analytical/critical external voice, so you're doing what I asked". 💜 I think you're the one being super-brave. Because I would probably feel hurt if someone replied to one of my posts with something like what I wrote.
It sounds like you trust in what you're doing, it feels necessary, and you're prepared for a variety of responses (and that doesn't affect the feeling of "it's important to try this"). So I'd say you can proceed with sharing. 😊
@QuietMagic
BTW, I considered messeging you about this personal letter but this site is also about helping others and I could only hope our conversation may help others navigate a seeming "no win" situation also.
So thanks again for putting yourself out there too.
@QuietMagic @cloudySummer
Well, you two. I hope this post finds you in good health and good moods.
With your help and encouragement, I finally got my letter off. So, THANKS!
I have no idea when or if it will be read. I did include some genuine niceties and concerns. Her long term boyfriend opened a window and so it was sent through him. So I know , at least, it will be acknowledged. That was one of my primary concerns.
A sad acknowledgement throughout this process was realizing that the ugliness I was feeling within the entire family was not all about me.
Of course it was good, to realize that it was not all about me. But, Is very sad to realize the level of other, unassociated discontent, throughout the entire family.
My answer or reply no longer needs to come from my Niece. The journey itself prved to be it's own solution. You two were a big part of the journey with your understandings and insights. I'd like to take a minute to spotlight your kindness and importance in ths world. OK.... 60 seonds later... time to move on... 😁🤣. You both are great, Thanks so much.
I do hope to get a positive reply from my niece but the burden is off my shoulders and that is a good feeling. But even if I don't get a reply, I think in time I'll be able to contribute some goodness in an acceptable manner.
I'd like to move forward and be the uncle that I always wish to be for all of my nieces and nephews. I realize my own narcissism contributed to my relationship with my ex, and that in turn set the stage for my failure in that department for the past 20 years.
I wish i could think as clearly (clearly is not the word i'm looking for) but anyway, i'd like to learn how to think better. (With Astutement and Discernment) had to google it. 🤔.
Thanks again and have a great day.
@Egoassist
Hey, that's a big milestone! I know sending the letter is something you've been wanting to do for a while. (I went back to the beginning of the thread and you first mentioned the letter in early October 2024, so this has been in the works for 7 months.) 💜 Sounds like you can know for sure that it will be delivered also, with the boyfriend facilitating.
"60 seconds later.. time to move on.."
😀 That made me chuckle
"My answer or reply no longer needs to come from my niece. The journey itself proved to be it's own solution"
Yeah, that sounds like a nice perspective. I could think of a couple ways in which writing the letter might have been helpful even if your niece doesn't respond positively:
1) By sending it, regardless of the response, helps with feeling like you've done your part. You've tried your best to express things and address any misunderstandings or hurt feelings. (Assuages guilt or feelings of something being incomplete/unsaid.)
2) Just the process of writing the letter (and having Cloudy/me witnessing that) probably helped in terms of clarifying how you felt/thought about things.
But I hope that things go well and you're able to re-establish some of those connections with your nieces/nephew if things go in that direction.
@QuietMagic
Yea, you guy's filled in an otherwise abyss in my thought process and it made all the difference.
I hope we can have other conversations as I explore the retraining of a narrcissist mindset or DNA into acts of generosity, tolerance and understanding for those I interact with.
I don't like hateful thinking and it's easy to get sucked into it. It's almost a form of cowardice if you don't join some form of hateful, stand against something. I know there are extremes but i'm talking about common intropections.
@Egoassist
"It's almost a form of cowardice if you don't join some form of hateful, stand against something."
Ah yeah, I remember you mentioning that. Almost like there are some people/conversations where it feels like the main way that people bond or have a topic to talk about is by bashing or badmouthing something/someone else. And that's something you usually try to avoid
@QuietMagic
Hey quiet magic, how has your summer been going? I truly hope, you been doing well.
I'm sorry that it's been so long I've posted here, but like any poet, when troubles are plentiful, poetry is more profound.
You helped me process a hard time or a hard tought process, and I wanna take a minute to thank you for that.
My issue has not been resolved from a totalitarian aspect but has definitely been resolved in my own frame of mind and your input along with cloudy summers help me through a very difficult time. Just because that time has passed, doesn't mean my respect for your insights has deminished. A big thank you. Along, with well well wishes for your well being. 😃.
Are you doing well?
@Egoassist
Hello! Good to hear from you again 💜
***
"You helped me process a hard time or a hard tought process, and I wanna take a minute to thank you for that."
No problem! I'm glad that it was helpful and thanks for expressing that. Knowing that that happens every so often gives me the fuel to talk to people on this site. 😊
***
"My issue has not been resolved from a totalitarian aspect but has definitely been resolved in my own frame of mind"
That makes sense. Sort of like maybe the "dream world" version of things had your family responding differently. But still you reached your own resolution by processing everything, saying what you felt like you needed to say, and getting to a point where you felt at peace with how you were handling things irrespective of other people's responses.
***
Things are good on my end. Was feeling pretty stressed a few days ago but most of the things that I was concerned about have resolved themselves, so now I'm just trying to catch up on tasks and reconsolidate my habits.
@QuietMagic
I'm glad to hear troublesome things got resolved and you are good currently. I hope that continues.
I have never heard the term "consolidating habits". I just googled it and it is an interesting concept.
Are you trying to form new habits into your day? (or just make current ones work better?)
Good luck with your tasks and I hope you have a wonderful week.😀.
@Egoassist
Thanks!
"Are you trying to form new habits into your day? (or just make current ones work better?)"
Started trying to set up some new habits a few weeks ago, abandoned them about a week ago due to general busyness/stress, and giving them another try now with some tweaks. So I guess they're new but they're also old 😀
@QuietMagic
Sorry your busyness and other things interfered but you're trying again! 👌
It sounds like you want to keep the pressure on them and that's good. It often takes a while to consolidate new routines and habits into your normal but you can do it. I hope you have bIts of success for expotential encourgement and accomplishments towards your expectations. (That's a lot of big words 😁...... The "bits of success" is the key take away. 😉)
You can do this. 👍🙂
@Egoassist
💜💜💪💪
@Quietmagic @cloudysummer,
Hi you guys. I hope this message finds you in good spirits and in good health. I'd like to wish you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Christmas is the holiday that I celebrate but whichever holiday you do celebrate, may it be filled with love, charity and may it be as merry as ever!
Happy Holidays with Love and Kindness
@EasyTalkFriend
Hi, thank you! (And that's a beautiful Christmas tree GIF 😊) Hope that everything is going well. 🙏 FYI that cloudySummer is no longer on 7 Cups
@QuietMagic
I'm doing Well most of the time, Thanks.
I'm really sorry/saddened to hear about cloudy summer. thanks for letting me know.
Hi, nice to meet you, maybe you're not that narcissistic if you have used wording "I failed", a true narcissist would never confess they ever "failed"
@mindrunner92
LOL, thanks.
A narccicist in recovery might....
Thanks for your comment and your insight. I'm trying.
Enjoy your holiday season. 😉
Thank you! You too!
@mindrunner92
oops... memeber acct and listner acct.. same guy. 😁
