Trust and 2nd chances
A few years ago my husband and I had an issue that almost ended our marriage...in a nutshell it involved a lot of lap dances, money, & deceit. I viewed it as cheating, he disagreed and said he didn't know I saw it that way. He promised he would never go again. It took a long time to forgive and trust him again. A few days ago I found out he broke his promise and has been going fairly often and has been for at least a year. I'm devastated...I feel betrayed, disrespected, hurt and angry. I am in shock. I'm not sure how I can trust him again or how to even forgive him. He has no excuses this time that he didnt know I'd be upset about it....My head tells me I should leave, but I do love him.
@determinedWalker5910
I understand the shock and betrayal you're currently feeling and I'm sorry to hear that it's a repeat of an issue that should have already been sorted the first time around. When you expressed that time all your hurt, feelings of being cheated on, broken trust etc ... had you asked him why he did it? We already know he said at the time that he didn't know you'd treat it as cheating. Was the root addressed? It might help you to understand exactly what that activity brings to his world/life that he isn't able to find within the relationship or other aspects of his life. That gap is what needs to be confronted if there is ever to be a fair solution to address both partners and forge a lasting solution. You're quite right that this time he indeed knows it would hurt you, he knew and accepted that great risk. Most important question - why
@0m Thanks for the insight. He admits he lied and has been hiding it from me for over a year, because he knew "I would get upset about it". He doesnt see how this affects my trust in him. He said it's in the past, he cant change it so I need to process it and move on. He said hes sorry but has shown no sympathy or remorse. He told me he will continue to go because its where his friends go...and I need to figure out how to move on. He said if I dont trust him there is nothing he can do to change that. I am so frustrated right now!
@determinedWalker5910
So he doesn't agree he broke your trust. He has conveniently forgotten that he specifically promised to never go again and reneged on that, perhaps because he had promised under threat of losing you rather than actually understanding why you felt betrayed. Two aspects shout out from your post
1. By his belief system he has not cheated or broken trust, perhaps because there was no sex involved.
2. He has refused to respect your boundaries in regards to the relationship.
Trust or cheating isn't simply about sex. It's where a partner intentionally deceives or hides information that they know is important to their partner.
This time he has been honest in telling you this is who he is and does not intend to change. While I can understand that's very frustrating because he refuses to respect your feelings on the matter, it's perhaps better to know facts when you have such an important decision to make.
Please feel free to write anytime, we're here for you.
@0 We have been seeing a therapist for the past few weeks and had a session yesterday. I find myself still very frustrated today. She is great but a little too "nice" for lack of a better word. Her suggestions are subtle...I dont think he picked up on all of them. We are working on our communication skills, but the other part of our issue is that when he doesn't agree the issue is "my problem to figure out" and there is never any resolution for me. I feel like this current issue is going to get swept under ther rug like all the others. I dont want to bring up or dwell on the past but I feel we need to discuss the definition of cheating and come to a mutual agreement to move forward. The same with the trips with his friends and the clubs...I want him to be able to go, but theres a lot of concern (for me) with him going, at least right now. His next trip is in a few weeks...I really would rather him not go...is that too much to ask? I have a feeling he will get pissed if I do. Then there's still rebuilding trust. She touched on him being transparent but I dont think he really comprehended that.
@determinedWalker5910
The good part is that he seems keen to solve this because he agreed to the sessions. Unfortunately he has divided important aspects into a "you problem" and a "me problem", where he would perhaps be willing to work on and solve his problems but yours are no concern of his! That's not how a team works. A team has "our problems" which both would understand and solve together. I'd like to know if you would feel better about the whole situation if transparency had been part of it? Was it the action itself that hurts more or the deceit surrounding it that's worse? The answer to this question would help you understand whether the counsellor's subtle hints would actually address your issues if he were to understand and accept them.
@0 . I think the deceit and broken promise is most bothersome. He says he went and just hung out, no lap dances etc. I want to believe he is being honest. (on the other hand I wanted to believe he would keep his promise in the first place) We are working on improving our communication skills so hopefully in the future we wont have these types of issues. I do understand part of the reason he didnt want to tell me the first time because he knew I'd be upset..we haven't had a good track record with navigating some of these issues, but he still should have told me. It does bother me that he really hasnt shown any remorse about lying/hiding it. We both have different ideas on the definition of cheating that I think we need to discuss and come to a mutual agreement on to move forward. He is adamant he didn't "cheat" so maybe I need to find a way to reword it...maybe that's part of why he is feeling so offended. I dunno. I'm just not sure how to find a reasonable compromise...I know I will never be ok with him getting lap dances. If we can rebuild trust and strengthen our relationship I think I might be able to be ok with him going if the guys go, but that puts him with the temptation...and maybe he just does what he wants and doesnt tell me. It will be difficult. I dont want to be demanding but the dances are a dealbreaker for me...just not sure how to convey the importance, and have him respect/honor my request.
@determinedWalker5910
At the risk of sounding very politically incorrect I'm going to share a fact. A significant number of men connect cheating to sex. Emotional cheating (as in having intimate emotional connections with other women which thankfully isn't part of your situation) or other non sexual physical acts do not count within the "cheating" ballpark. So yes, the wording might need to change to something he can relate with. Like he broke a promise. He lied to you. He hurt you. These are wrongs he has already admitted and wants to work on. He broke your trust - he disagrees. You see, he is in denial about the big ones like cheating and trust because he knows those are far more difficult to fix and will take more than an apology.
What if the tables were turned and you hid stuff about some activity that you knew he would be hurt by? Would that sort of example help take your point across?
@0 . I did try using an example of me hiding something or breaking a promise but it really didnt get much of a reaction. He knows he screwed up, and his thinking is that its in the past and nothing he can do to change that. He doesnt know how to fix it so pushes it on me. He actually just left for a weeklong remote camping trip & I the break will be good to let things settle a bit. My plan this week (I think) is to make a list of what I want in this relationship, areas that need changes & conflicts, and possible solutions if I have any. I have a couple books I'm finishing up...he always says you read them and give me the cliff notes. (he doesnt really enjoy reading so asking him to do so is like torture) However I think these books will be helpful to him as well. I'm going to ask if he would please read them & suggest audiobooks or reading them together if it helps. I'm also going to write him a letter to read to him when he gets back (hopefully this way I can say what I need to say without interruption and arguments. (we'll discuss after) I know ultimatums dont work, so need to find a way to to tell him truth/honesty is essential. That lies/hiding things and any activity (under my definition of cheating) is not something I can compromise on, that I really need him to figure out if this is something he can accept & follow through with. These are a dealbreaker for me. I'm not sure how best to word it yet so he doesnt get defensive, but I guess I have a week to figure it out
@determinedWalker5910
The letter sounds like a brilliant idea to say your piece without interruption or argument. Not so sure about having a non reader read books because it takes a different skill set to comprehend in a new format and this is really important that he gets it right. That list sounds like a great starting point for you to know exactly where things stand, where you'd like them to be and if there's any way to bridge that gap. Also having his input and thoughts when he gets back would help you set the right strength of choice-consequence because when you say "dealbreaker", what exactly does that mean? It's a scary word but I don't think from what you've shared so far that you're actually thinking in those terms.
