Trust
I have been married for 15 years and have 2 teen boys. My relationship with my husband has overall been good, though there have been many bumps along the way. We are both very strong minded and stubborn at times. Over the last few years it seems we have drifted apart somewhat. He is in customer service and his job is stressful at times. He comes home and is crabby or short with the kids and I. He often makes comments that I can best describe as having an "edge" to them. If I mention that it was harsh, uncalled for etc, he defends it by saying "I was just joking". He travels a lot for business, and often comments he was not looking forward to coming home, typically due to issues/challenges with our kids. At 14 and 16, they know "it all" so it is challenging at times. Even the kids have mentioned that "Dad's happier when he isn't home", so it's not just my perception. I don't feel that he listens, or has much respect for me. I have discussed these issues with him and tried to let him know how it makes me feel, but he just seems to shrug it off. I feel emotionally disconnected from him much of the time and this has led to affection and intimacy issues. He gets angry when I'm not in the mood, which pushes me away further. I have tried to discuss this with him as well and his responses are "I am who I am and I'm not going to change" or "I'm not going to change anything until you do".
Last week we were on our way home from a family dinner at a nice restaurant. He was drivng a bit too fast and got pulled over. We ended up with only a warning, but the officer asked when the last time he had been pulled over had been. He said a few months ago. When the officer walked back to his car, my husband said "Yeah, I didn't tell you about that one...I just paid it." I didn't say anything more then, but this continued to bug me over the next few days. (He had left for a trip with the guys, so I wasn't able to disucss further with him) I kept wondering why would he hide it? It was a speeding ticket, no big deal. And if he was deceitful about something like this, what else is he hidding?
To give a bit more insight, about 6 years ago something similar happened. I happened to be checking a credit card receipt for something and saw a $500+ charge. When I googled the charge name, it came up as a being a strip club. I asked him about it and he admitted he and a co worker went there on whim for a couple drinks. He said he had to "buy the girls there a few drinks and had a couple lap dances". This incidence really shook our relationship. He was deceitful, and initially lied/left out details. It was much more than a "couple" lap dances...from what I can figure ,it was more like 8-10. I felt that he cheated, he disagreed. (He was previously married...she cheated on him. He told me that he had cheated on her when he was "pretty sure" she was cheating, though didn't know for sure at the time). We went to a councelor, who really wasn't a good fit, and didn't offer much help. He was eventually apologetic, and said he understood how I felt. He said he was sorry and wanted to work it out. He claimed he didn't tell me because he was embarrased he spent so much money. I don't think he ever fully understood how deeply he hurt me but he promised he would never go to a club again and promised not to ever hide anything again.
Back to present...when he returned home I asked him why he hadn't told me about the speeding ticket. He got defensive and said because I didn't need to know. He said it was no big deal and no reason for me to be upset. I responded that if it was no big deal he should have told me. He then said he was embarrased and didn't need to hear any hassle from me. He got a couple tickets on trips to Chicago in the past, so the last time or two that he's gone there, I've mentioned for him to " watch his speed"...I've done this in a joking manner. He brought this up and said I keep throwing it in his face. I told him that I was joking and had he let me know it bothered him I wouldn't do it.
He thinks I'm over reacting and have no reason to be upset. He said he didn't lie, he just didn't tell me. When I asked how he would feel if the tables were turned he said he wouldn't care. He mentioned at $15-20 ticket is no big deal. (He didn't realize that I had played detective while he was away...he had paid $180 for the ticket and used a credit card we rarely use.) He was surprised when I commented that $180 was far from 15-20 and really didn't have an answer for me. I also discovered a $135 charge to a Cigar shop. This too has been a sore spot in our relationship. He goes to hunting camp once a year and smokes cigars while he's there. We are both non smokers. He says there's no health risks becuase it happens once a year (daily for a week+) and he doesn't inhale. My mother was a smoker and died of lung cancer. While I know his chances of harm are low, this practice still bothers me. Add in the fact that early in our marriage I mentioned that I had shared a cigarette with a friend on a girls weekend, (we were drunk). He was extremely ticked off at this and said we were done if it ever happened again. I've tried to ask how this was any different than his cigar smoking but it usually ended in a fight or him saying it was not something he is going to stop doing. Though it still bothers me on some level, I have chosen to pick my battles and let it go for the greater good. I can deal with a few dollars, but $135 seems a bit much. We are financially stable, but I feel that as a partner, I should be aware of where our money is spent.
I'm at a loss as to what to do. Part of me thinks our relationship is slowly/continually becoming toxic and it's just a matter of time before we completely hate each other. Part of me thinks that it's just time to walk away. The other part of me still loves him very much, loves our family and the good times we do still have (though its getting harder). I just don't know how to do it anymore. I feel like I constantly try to "fix things", that I am the one that identifies there is an issue and tries to discuss and figure things out. But I'm tired...tired of feeling that I'm the one that needs to try to make things better. Over the last few months I've sort of stepped back to just let things be...to see if he takes any initiative to make changes, discuss etc, but nothings happened. He tells me that he loves me, but it seems that his actions don't support that. We probably should try another marriage councelor, but I don't feel like should be the one to do the research and make the appointment. I've mentioned this but it seems to fall on deaf ears. I just don't know anymore.
@determinedWalker5910
1. Over the last few years you feel you have drifted apart somewhat. Does this mean the emotional connection has weakened to the point where the marriage is more a duty than a choice for either one or both of you?
2. He comments he was not looking forward to coming home. Why? From what you've shared it seems like the missing factor might be respect on all fronts. Kids to parents, spouses to each other, everyone all round.
3. He said he won't change anything until you do. What changes does he hope for?
4. People get secretive and defensive if they feel confession will lead to unpleasant scenes. When they get caught, the same unpleasant scenes will happen but at least they take the chance they won't be caught every time. Unfortunately, your reaction was exactly why he hid it.
5. I'm confused by your narrative. If it were just 2 lap dances and he hid that, would you be okay with it? If it was a $15 speeding ticket he hid would that be fine? Is it the amount of expenses hidden that are the issue or do you have a specific problem about the kind of expenses regardless of amount .. or is there a threshold of amount that certain kinds of expenses need to cross, to require disclosure?
6. Whenever there is a disagreement or difference of opinion it is never a good idea to bring up the past. Using a partner's past indiscretion or past bad behaviour to justify present disrespect of boundaries is a no. If there are past issues that have gone unresolved then make time for both parties to calmly talk about them, express how they feel and see if there is anything that can be done to find closure on the subject.
7. We all have our good/bad and amazing/ugly sides. The longer you know a person, the better you get to know all aspects of them. Obviously at the beginning of a relationship people will put forward their best sides. To some extent, when both partners try, they can find middle ground to reach a happy existence where they aren't stepping on their partners toes all the time. It appears he has stopped trying and you're considering the same stance because you're emotionally exhausted.
-- The above is just my perspective on what you shared. I hope you're able to look at different options to resolve the current impasse in your relationship.
All the best!
@0m Thanks for your reply. In response to your questions.
1. I can't speak for him, but for me the marriage does not seem like a duty...the lack of emotional connection leaves a void that I know should be filled.
2. Again I can't answer for him. He says he loves me, the kids, pets (we have dogs/cats/chickens/goats who all require a degree of care) and we own our home...my interpretation is that he just doesn't want to "deal" with any of it. Sometimes there are issues with the kids but for the most part they are good, average teens. There is a fair amount of daily chores with the animals, and home maintainance, but nothing I would consider over the top.
3. Whenever I get upset about somethign he usually tells me it's my issue and I need to deal with it. If something doesn't bother him, or he feels it shouldn't be something I should be upset about, he dismisses himself from it. He says he is" happy with our relationship, other than frequency of sex". Everything/anything else is my problem.
4. I disagree that my reaction was why he hid the speeding ticket. I don't have an issue with him getting the speeding ticket. The fact that he hid it is the issue. Had he told me when he got it, I may have rolled my eyes and shaken my head, since I'd think he'd learn one of these days, but I wouldn't have gotten mad.
5. The issue is with being secrative and hiding things. The amount isn't really the issue, but we have always been open about finances and in agreement on how we spend. Any "big" purchases or anything above bills and typical household expenses we have always agreed to discuss.
6/7. I do not typically bring up the past. I usually try to avoid it as much as possible. I mentioned it in my narrative to give perspective. In this particular case we had a significant trust issue a few years back and I thought we had gotten through it and pretty much healed from it. When I found out he was hiding things from me again it makes me wonder what else is he/has he been hiding? What will he "not tell" me in the future? I wonder if all the things he said and promised when we were working to "rebuild" trust from the first issue was just BS. It puts a lot of doubts in my mind. At this point I know I can't continue to be with someone I can't trust. The part I'm having difficulty with is if I should continue to try to work through this, or just concede that some things just aren't meant to be.
I appreciate your perspective and thank you for your response.
@determinedWalker5910
Thanks for the details and clarifications in your response :) It brings a few thoughts that I'll share here with you.
Love needs actions louder than words. Saying he loves you, the kids, pets and not wanting to deal with any of it does not show love to any of them.
A pattern of lies and deceit can certainly shake the foundations of trust. Since your past trust issue what exactly has changed in your lives and relationship to show his part of effort in rebuilding trust? If you're feeling shaky about him, the marriage and the relationship what makes him so sure everything's fantastic (except the sex)?
@determinedWalker5910
Hey there, hopefully you are doing well. There's a few things I would like to point out;
I have been married for 15 years and have 2 teen boys. My relationship with my husband has overall been good, though there have been many bumps along the way. We are both very strong minded and stubborn at times. Over the last few years it seems we have drifted apart somewhat. He is in customer service and his job is stressful at times. He comes home and is crabby or short with the kids and I. (This is a sign of not being able to hanle stress well and taking his stress out on other which is not a good thing to do) He often makes comments that I can best describe as having an "edge" to them. If I mention that it was harsh, uncalled for etc, he defends it by saying "I was just joking". (This is passive-agressive behavior, where he says rude comments and says "i was just joking" to not accept fault or responsability for his actions. It's impossible to have a healthy and mature conversation with people like him) ) He travels a lot for business, and often comments he was not looking forward to coming home, typically due to issues/challenges with our kids. (He is definetly not being a good parent here, and rather be away from home to run away from the issues/challaneges that comes from having children) At 14 and 16, they know "it all" so it is challenging at times. Even the kids have mentioned that "Dad's happier when he isn't home", so it's not just my perception. I don't feel that he listens, or has much respect for me. (I could imagine how his behavior is with you, and often the more you tolerate the worst it will get until he has not respect for you). I have discussed these issues with him and tried to let him know how it makes me feel, but he just seems to shrug it off. (It's hard to really express feelings and work things out when your husband is dismissive and doesn't pay much attention to how you feel. He is not putting much priority on how you feel and not attempting to understand how you feel because this is what they used to do to him as child) I feel emotionally disconnected from him much of the time and this has led to affection and intimacy issues. (It's understandable, you get heavy anxiety and hurt because of the way he treats you) He gets angry when I'm not in the mood, (This is mainly because you lost attraction for him and he doesn't make you feel understood, so it doesn't make you feel safe and then it will make you lose the desire to be intimate with him) which pushes me away further. (This is his fault for treating horribly) I have tried to discuss this with him as well and his responses are "I am who I am and I'm not going to change" (This is the typical response people like him usually give you which means they don't really see anything wrong in what they do, so they don't think any changes needed to be made. I honestly think he won't change) or "I'm not going to change anything until you do".(People like him often project on you how they feel and try their best to not take any responsability for actions because they feel its the other person fault)
Last week we were on our way home from a family dinner at a nice restaurant. He was drivng a bit too fast and got pulled over. (He is displaying reckless behavior here) We ended up with only a warning, but the officer asked when the last time he had been pulled over had been. He said a few months ago. When the officer walked back to his car, my husband said "Yeah, I didn't tell you about that one...I just paid it." I didn't say anything more then, but this continued to bug me over the next few days. (He had left for a trip with the guys, so I wasn't able to disucss further with him) I kept wondering why would he hide it? It was a speeding ticket, no big deal. And if he was deceitful about something like this, what else is he hidding? (Its hard to trust someone like him because of how they keep things inside and won't share it at times)
To give a bit more insight, about 6 years ago something similar happened. I happened to be checking a credit card receipt for something and saw a $500+ charge. When I googled the charge name, it came up as a being a strip club. (He has not been honest about things and from the sounds of it he doesn't have intengrity) I asked him about it and he admitted he and a co worker went there on whim for a couple drinks. (Excuses...look at the way he minimized the situation on order to not make it sound as if he is guilty) He said he had to "buy the girls there a few drinks and had a couple lap dances". (This is a major red flag, this in indication he is capable of doing tons of things behind your back) This incidence really shook our relationship. He was deceitful, and initially lied/left out details. It was much more than a "couple" lap dances...from what I can figure ,it was more like 8-10. I felt that he cheated, he disagreed. (He was previously married...she cheated on him. He told me that he had cheated on her when he was "pretty sure" she was cheating, though didn't know for sure at the time). (I don't really buy his story, it sounds like its filled with lies and he is trying to make himself look like he is not guilty by minimizing the situation) We went to a councelor, who really wasn't a good fit, and didn't offer much help. He was eventually apologetic, and said he understood how I felt. (I don't really buy his apologies either because at some point he will tell more lies or keep things hidden in the near future) He said he was sorry and wanted to work it out. He claimed he didn't tell me because he was embarrased he spent so much money. (Yeah...he didn't want to tell you because he knew it wasn't correct what he was doing and wanted to avoid a divorce. Look at the way he is trying to twist thing to make it look as if he did nothing wrong) I don't think he ever fully understood how deeply he hurt me but he promised he would never go to a club again and promised not to ever hide anything again. (I think he was lying here, he was telling you what you needed to hear)
Back to present...when he returned home I asked him why he hadn't told me about the speeding ticket. He got defensive and said because I didn't need to know. (This is the way he reacts when he is being confronted, this is done to end the conversation right away) He said it was no big deal and no reason for me to be upset. (For him, feelings or emotions are not a big deal so he will minimize how you feel which will lead you to feel disconnected) I responded that if it was no big deal he should have told me. (I could tell you two didn't really work out things, and what he did still hurts you. I could see you felt disconnected by his dismissive behavior) He then said he was embarrased and didn't need to hear any hassle from me. (Excuses...I think he is afraid to be vulnerable and didn'tt ell you in fear of getting in trouble. He grew up thinking its best to lie and to not share things if not then it gets you into trouble) He got a couple tickets on trips to Chicago in the past, so the last time or two that he's gone there, I've mentioned for him to " watch his speed"...I've done this in a joking manner. (You were trying to communicate in an indirect way here) He brought this up and said I keep throwing it in his face. I told him that I was joking and had he let me know it bothered him I wouldn't do it.
He thinks I'm over reacting and have no reason to be upset. (In his view "you have no reason to be upset" so this is how he feels, and he doesn't realize that for you it means something. This is one of the reason its impossible to discuss things with him because of the way he projects on you and minimizes things) He said he didn't lie, he just didn't tell me. When I asked how he would feel if the tables were turned he said he wouldn't care.(Sureeeeeeeeee) He mentioned at $15-20 ticket is no big deal. (He is using lies here and minimizing the situation. This behavior is going to make you feel anxious and even more disconnected) (He didn't realize that I had played detective while he was away...he had paid $180 for the ticket and used a credit card we rarely use.) He was surprised when I commented that $180 was far from 15-20 and really didn't have an answer for me. I also discovered a $135 charge to a Cigar shop. (This is reckless spending, which shows he spends this much to feel good about whatever situation he is going through) This too has been a sore spot in our relationship. He goes to hunting camp once a year and smokes cigars while he's there. We are both non smokers. He says there's no health risks becuase it happens once a year (daily for a week+) and he doesn't inhale. My mother was a smoker and died of lung cancer. While I know his chances of harm are low, this practice still bothers me. Add in the fact that early in our marriage I mentioned that I had shared a cigarette with a friend on a girls weekend, (we were drunk). He was extremely ticked off at this and said we were done if it ever happened again. (In other words "You either do what I want or we are done". This is controlling and manipulating behavior) I've tried to ask how this was any different than his cigar smoking but it usually ended in a fight or him saying it was not something he is going to stop doing. (You see, he isn't being fair. I can tell he tends to force his view and opinion about this because "he will not stop doing this") Though it still bothers me on some level, I have chosen to pick my battles and let it go for the greater good. (No, what you do is push it to the back of your mind. This create anger and then it makes you feel resentment. You can't afford to go through this cycle because is very unhealthy for you) I can deal with a few dollars, but $135 seems a bit much. We are financially stable, but I feel that as a partner, I should be aware of where our money is spent.
I'm at a loss as to what to do. Part of me thinks our relationship is slowly/continually becoming toxic (It has been toxic since day one) and it's just a matter of time before we completely hate each other. Part of me thinks that it's just time to walk away. (It is time to walk away because he isn't going to change and will make you feel disconnected with his dismissive behavior) The other part of me still loves him very much, loves our family and the good times we do still have (though its getting harder). I just don't know how to do it anymore. I feel like I constantly try to "fix things", (It takes two to be in a relationship, and from the sounds of it you are the only one investing and wanting to fix things while he is not showing signs he cares about this relationship) that I am the one that identifies there is an issue and tries to discuss and figure things out. But I'm tired...tired of feeling that I'm the one that needs to try to make things better. Over the last few months I've sort of stepped back to just let things be...to see if he takes any initiative to make changes, discuss etc, but nothings happened. (He won't take any initiative or will try to discuss this because in his mind he has not done anything wrong. He often blames you and makes you feel disconnected) He tells me that he loves me, but it seems that his actions don't support that. (Action speak louder than words) We probably should try another marriage councelor, (This will not work because he doesn't see he has a problem, and he would have to accept he has issues on order for this to work) but I don't feel like should be the one to do the research and make the appointment. I've mentioned this but it seems to fall on deaf ears. I just don't know anymore.