Advice please :)
Hello, this is my first post, so ya know, bear with me.
I have been dating a girl for two months (we met on an app). We slept together on our first date and soon began hanging out every day. She told me her longest relationship was four years and she eventually broke it off becasue he wouldnt touch or have sex with her. I resolved that that would never be a problem with us. Soon, we were talking about moving in and future plans (she told me she loved me three weeks in). When we had an issue, we could sit down and talk it through which I very much appreciated but every now and again, she would have a strange reaction to something such as when we discussed money stuff (such as me being in a situation where I bought pizza for her friends instead of her) she would break down into tears and explain that her past exs had been rough on money. She cried a lot sometimes and would spiral into self laceration and hatred talk. I knew she'd struggled with depression.
I soon learned that her father had been really abusive up into her twenties (she's early thirties now). She's done a lot of therapy and also does ketamine treatments. Okay so there's more here but fast forward to a week ago. We were discussing COVID and my sister gets pretty panicky about it which isnt my favorite. I explained that dealing with the unknown doesnt have to be based in fear. She defended my sister and I later learned it was because she had been panicked during COVID (this is one of the re-occurring problems. Her taking things personally).
It bothered me especially because we had had at least three talks about her taking other people's sides (this is called devil's advocate and is a sign of low empathy). So we had sex and after I asked her if she thought I was smart. She reacted as if slapped and I explained it seemed that she didnt seem to trust my judgement very much. This soon spiraled into a fight (which left me feeling really surprised that this would cause a fight) she explained she's very vulnerable after sex and felt attacked by my question.
As the fight went on, I had to navigate a few times her taking things I said very negatively and then acting as if they were true. I'd make a benign statement such as: "we need to work on this together" and she'd tell me she'd heard "you dont do shit." I'm assuming this is a trauma response due to her father but upsetting none the less. I began to feel like she was controlling my meaning making.
She left and texted me when she got home she was so upset she almost threw up in her car. For me this is a clear sign of a trauma response. She was massively dysregulated.
The next three days, when she would communicate (which wasn't much, a massive decrease from normal) she was defensive and soon told me there were compatibility issues here. I charted it out and went from being "the best boyfriend ever" to not worth of a text in less than a week. She sometimes acknowledges the role her trauma is playing here and other times lays it at my feet. I asked her if she thought she was splitting and she was dismissive. ( i have confirmed with several counselors that this is textbook splitting).
In addition to the defensiveness, there is clear insecurity (she needs nearly constant reassurance), a fair amount of blame shifting (either she spirals into her being a piece of shit or lays it at my feet), some stonewalling and control.
On one hand, I understand trauma and trauma responses (I myself have C-PTSD) and am willing to work with her on that. On the other hand, I'm really aghast and hurt by how she has handled the fight and feel like she's almost a different person (again trauma can do this) and am worried about the presence of some personality disorder stuff (such as vulnerable narcissism or BPD).
One path takes me to empathy and compassion and the other takes me to breaking it off. I've been the victim of narcissistic abuse before and wont do it again. Any advice or insight helpful. Thanks :D
@endpaper you seem to have a great deal of understanding and emotional intelligence, which will both serve you well in this situation. Whatever decision you make boils down to what you are able to deal with from this other person, and what you are willing to deal with. It sounds like there are several issues related to trauma, all of which can be improved via therapy, etc., but will nonetheless take time. I hope that you are able to look at the situation as objectively as possible and make the best decision for yourself. We are here for you.
@Help127 Thank you!
You seem to have a lot of patience and kindness and I hope everything gets better for you two <3
@chocolatebunnyy Thank you. I like to think that I do. The emotional escalation (seeing the worst or most horrible/mean meaning of what I have said) is by far the hardest because my intuition is to argue my point which isnt helpful.
This is difficult situation and I have also be the victim of narcissistic abuse. Looking from the outside in, I know we really want to help and support people who are in pain but at the same time by doing so we are actually not helping them. Alot of thought is needed regarding both your emotional needs and are you both able to do that for each other. If not then it's much fairer and kinder to break off and move on. It's really tough being an empath but you are just as important and deserving as anyone else and we are not here to fix others . Good luck, I wish you happiness.
@intelligentTiger5312
Thanks! I agree being emphathic is a hard road. I'm trying to bear with her through this and we are kinda hanging out again but she's barely touching me and talking aways turns into an argument so I feel pretty stuck which is activating my trauma.
On that basis perhaps you should consider what are you actually getting out of this relationship? If sticking it out and seeing if things improve with her is your objective I wish you the best but if you truly want compatability and a real connection then you will have to be brave and look elsewhere as I fear she is not wanting to give that to you. But please do correct me if I'm wrong.
Update:
Any time I mentioned emotion she would ghost me. When I forced the issue, she broke up with me over Instagram. I told her this behavior was shocking but resolved to get my things back and finally stop being the nice guy. We met in the park and when I told her her behavior was abusive, she threatened repeatedly to leave. I called her bluff and pressed on. After an hour of defensiveness and blame shifting, she broke down and told me she was so scared. I couldn't sit there and watch a person suffering without offering comfort. I held her and sobbed into my chest. We hung out the rest of the night and I thought we'd had a breakthrough and things would be okay. However, the very next day things were weird again. She kept being "too busy" and when we hung out she would shut down. I was looking for repair and it was non-existent.
That Thursday, she texted me to ask if I would pick her up and take her to an appointment. Our usual for weeks was that she would drive over, leave her car, I'd take her to the doctor then go back and pick her up and she'd nap at my place. All of a sudden this was a very big deal. She wanted to go back to her house etc. I told her I wouldnt be disrupting my day to do this favor for her. Eventually, she relented but not before sending me a huge text about how hard it was for her to accept help. (Where had this been the last eight times I'd taken her). She showed up at my house and wouldnt kiss or hug me and commanded me that we needed to go. I told her she was being rude and set her down. I drove her to her appointment but felt very angry and used.
In a while she texted sorry and said she was being a bitch. I told her I had needed to deepen into my compassion but I was ok. I went to pick her up and she made me wait twenty minutes so again I felt used and angry. She got in the car and I was curt and short. Once we got back to my house, she broke down into tears and told me I hated her. I assured her I did not. It took about an hour to calm her down and we had sex and she left.
The next day, she was super busy again so I resolved to go hang with friends. I received many updates during the day on her progress on Harry Potter but nothing regarding the day before or anything emotional. After the movie, I began to have a panic attack which lasted for hours. Something was wrong here. This isn't what it should look like after a near break up. We had plans the next day to take a nature walk for her mental health.
The next day, I received no texts (never had this happened before). I checked in about eleven and she said she hadnt texted becasue she didnt want to wake me (again, never had this happened before). I told her I was irritated and nervous. She seemed gleeful and I noted this but she told me she was having a bad day. After making me wait again, she showed up at my house and announced we needed to have a big talk. I immediately called her on it and said if I'd known this was her plan I would have said it wasnt a good day. She persisted and pressed on with the break up. I lost it after the stress and shit of the last few weeks and had to remove myself to calm down. She would no longer take the walk we'd planned but wanted to talk. Turns out the talk was her refuting and invalidating everything I said and her trying to make me feel like the break up was my fault. She said she wanted this to be civil and I countered that she had insured it would not be. I asked her why she was doing it this way and she told me clarity. I told her her clarity was an act of psychological violence on my person. She said that's it and started to leave. I called her a coward. Walking a bit more, I cooled off and called her. I caught up to her and she said she wanted to be friends. I told her I would never be friends with someone who treated people like this. When we got back to my house, she tried to give me a hug which I refused. I immediately blocked her on everything and set about putting the pieces together. I later received several nasty texts from her roommate (this is called a flying monkey). After reading Rethinking Narcissism, I am nearly positive she is a vulnerable narcissist and a nasty one too. They utilize pity to control people (as she had done in the park), have terrible self esteem, and almost no empathy. Giving her the benefit of the doubt was used against me. I had no idea this type of narcissist existed and what their tools were. I'm so happy she revealed herself and I got out.
My take away is this: if you find yourself googling someone's behavior its a massive red flag. Don't make excuses for people (not even if they have trauma) and as soon as someone crosses into abusive behavior walk away and block them. I wish I had.
Oh my, you poor man and I truly feel for you. I was with a narcissist for 15 years and it was quite frightening how they behaved and made everything that went wrong as your fault. They have no ability to deal with their own bad behaviour and expertly manipulate us. I am afraid we do have to hit rock bottom and see their absolute worst before we have the courage and impetus to draw the line and say enough is enough. They are absolute emotional vampires and especially for empaths.
I am so proud of you to make the break and to close the door on a relationship that was destructive and far from nurturing and loving. No contact is the only way to ensure they don't get their hooks into you again.
I wish you happiness, love and a life full of joy and we all deserve that. Look after yourself, I think you know how to do that now.
@intelligentTiger5312
Thanks! It was rough for sure and I'm glad I caught on enough to refuse her friendship and go no contact. I've got to say, I've bounced back quickly and each day am feeling great. :D Geez...15 years? That's a long time. What kind of a narcissist were they?
I feel for you. You sound super compassionate and understanding. Maybe suggest some therapy and see how that goes?
You said something that caught my attention. The thing about her controlling your meaning making.
My gf kind of does that. She takes things i said and somehow always manages to flip it around making me sound like a bad guy and her the victim. Like with the "we need to work on this together" and her hearing "you don't do shit".
She breaks up with me one minute then she apologizes then the next she starts talking about how we can fix things. After that is when it completely turns and she starts blaming things on me saying how i treat her like shit, that i don't even try anymore, that i make her feel like i don't care. I'm just standing there confused as to what I'm doing wrong and what I'm doing to make her fell like that.
@azamor02
I'd look into narcissistic abuse azamor. Maybe you'll recognize other behaviors and it will guide you. Feel free to check back in if you want to discuss.
Mine was the cerebral narcissist, used his intelligence as a control measure. He was very controlling emotionally and would make it my fault and say I made him cross or mad and that I always had to make a drama! It was always him!
I used to have the house immaculate before he came from work or he'd go mad at me especially if the children had left bits of craft paper on the floor, he never took interest in what they actually made. I was not allowed out with my work colleagues and if I did stand up to him he would always be late home so I would be late joining them he would rage over silly things like getting the wrong soap. I could go on....
He was clever, when he knew I was close to leaving he would do something incredibly nice and be over loving. His method was to make you crave his approval and affection by drip feeding it.
Life should not be like that in a relationship and nobody should put up with it.
@intelligentTiger5312
Oh geez that's awful. I've had too friends that were in marriages just like that. It eroded their spirits and changed their personalities :( What finally got you out?
Hey how are you guys doing now?
