Damned if I do, damned if I don't
I posted a few weeks back about an ongoing dynamic that has created a dead bedroom for both me and my wife. We are just coming off another bad couple of weeks after I returned from a business trip. I really missed her a lot and was really looking forward to some alone time and intimacy when I returned. However, I came back and she was tired and in a bad mood because of an argument with the kids, even though she was happy to see me. This was followed by nights of falling asleep on the sofa, kids illnesses, and basically anything you can imagine that prevented any intimacy. I was more patient than usual. Listened to her concerns, helped out a lot around the house, provided advice when asked. Basically I tried to be the best husband I could be.
For two weeks nothing. I tried to initiate several times. Nothing She just fell asleep. I went downstairs and took care of myself. Rinse and repeat until finally I broke from lack of touch on Friday night and all day Saturday. She knew something was up. She offered sex on Saturday night. I said that I just felt so lonely and undesired and worthless and didn't want sex because she felt sorry for me. She rubbed my head until I fell asleep. This was enough intimacy to cheer me up the next day. We went to the amusement park the next day and had a great day. I felt good and thought she did too. I felt this was my chance. I tried to get home as early as I could and get the kids to bed in hopes that that night would be the night. Nothing... I asked right before we went to bed if there was a chance. She said "no, but definitely tomorrow night." I said that it was very unlikely because every time she says that it's a 50/50 chance. She said that we will definitely get in bed by 10pm to make sure. I was skeptical.
Sure enough the next day her PMD flared up, and she took an SSRI to help out. She was in a bad mode all day and really tired. I took care of as many chores and errands as possible so she could have some breaks. I also spent some quality time with the kids. Again, I give myself a solid A for being a good husband. 10pm came along. She wanted to watch more Japanese prank videos on YouTube. 10:30pm I take the dogs out to the bathroom, which is usually the cue to get ready for bed. Nope. She's still on the couch and wants to watch more videos. We finally go up around 11:15. She's really tired. She tells me I was right and ask how I knew. I just said that I know. I know her habits that well after 15 years. I watch my tablet trying to cool down. She's quiet trying to sleep. I finally get so angry that I say I'm going downstairs. I give her a kiss on the forehead and go downstairs and cry my eyes out and then have a pity masturbation session that leaves me sleepy and depressed.
This morning she calls out of work and is more depressed than yesterday. Here's my issue. So if I act all depressed and moody, she offers pity sex so that I'll be in a better mood. However, if I act supportive, loving, and attentive like I should, I get rejected. The lesson I'm learning is being an asshole is more likely to get me what I need. I don't want to be an asshole. I want someone who wants me for being a good husband and father, who desires me for the best parts of me, not the worst. I'm thinking more and more that we won't be able to resolve this. I don't know what to do next.
@buckynwd
Hey there, hopefully you are doing well. There's a few things I would like to point out;
I posted a few weeks back about an ongoing dynamic that has created a dead bedroom for both me and my wife. We are just coming off another bad couple of weeks after I returned from a business trip. I really missed her a lot and was really looking forward to some alone time and intimacy when I returned. However, I came back and she was tired and in a bad mood because of an argument with the kids, even though she was happy to see me. This was followed by nights of falling asleep on the sofa, kids illnesses, and basically anything you can imagine that prevented any intimacy. (It must be tough going through all of this for a very long time, it can definetly be discouraging. This seems like she's putting reason after reason as to avoid sexual intimacy. It's really important to think back of the times where you two began dating and getting to know each other. What things you did back then (which made her feel different than now) vs now?) I was more patient than usual. Listened to her concerns, helped out a lot around the house, provided advice when asked. Basically I tried to be the best husband I could be. (You did great here on making her feel heard and understood)
For two weeks nothing. I tried to initiate several times. (One thing I would like to point out are about the differences between men and women. Men can usually be arouse extremely fast, while it takes women a lot longer because for them it's all about connection, romance, taking them on dates and making them feel special above all. There's a good chance she wasn't feeling it because what may have been missing are the dates, connection and romance) Nothing She just fell asleep. (it must had felt hurtful knowing this happened) I went downstairs and took care of myself. Rinse and repeat until finally I broke from lack of touch on Friday night and all day Saturday. She knew something was up. She offered sex on Saturday night. (This sounds like someone who's offering sexual intimacy on her terms, which is not okay) I said that I just felt so lonely and undesired and worthless and didn't want sex because she felt sorry for me. (I could understand why you would refused, it definitely felt off the way she offered it) She rubbed my head until I fell asleep. This was enough intimacy to cheer me up the next day. (I understand why you would say this, but at the end of the day you are not getting your needs met) We went to the amusement park the next day and had a great day. I felt good and thought she did too. I felt this was my chance. (I can understand why this would be your focus, especially when it's been awhile this hasn't happened. but it's very important to think about this. This feels like you are focusing a lot on this end-goal, and in an unconscious level she feels like this may be all that you may want. This will often make her put roadblocks, and will not want to have sexual intimacy) I tried to get home as early as I could and get the kids to bed in hopes that that night would be the night. Nothing... I asked right before we went to bed if there was a chance. She said "no, but definitely tomorrow night." (I don't like the way she's putting sexual intimacy on her terms, but in a way it seems like she doesn't want to hurt your feelings. I highly doubt she would follow through with this though because her words doesn't seem to match her actions on this topic) I said that it was very unlikely because every time she says that it's a 50/50 chance. She said that we will definitely get in bed by 10pm to make sure. I was skeptical.
Sure enough the next day her PMD flared up, and she took an SSRI to help out. She was in a bad mode all day and really tired. I took care of as many chores and errands as possible so she could have some breaks. I also spent some quality time with the kids. Again, I give myself a solid A for being a good husband. 10pm came along. She wanted to watch more Japanese prank videos on YouTube. (She's breaking promises and not following through with what she said. I can tell she has been doing this for far too long, so it makes her keep doing this) 10:30pm I take the dogs out to the bathroom, which is usually the cue to get ready for bed. Nope. She's still on the couch and wants to watch more videos. (This is quite rude of her to do. She's showing a lack of respect for you, and it's not okay the way she's behaving.) We finally go up around 11:15. She's really tired. She tells me I was right and ask how I knew. (She's not appreciating the things you are doing, and is taking you for granted. It's important to surround yourself with people who will stick to their word, and will not break promises. She said all that you wanted to hear, and then decided to just leave you hanging. This is not acceptable behavior coming from her) I just said that I know. (As a person/human being you must think about what are your boundaries, your needs, and what you are not willing to tolerate from another person.) I know her habits that well after 15 years. I watch my tablet trying to cool down. She's quiet trying to sleep. I finally get so angry that I say I'm going downstairs. (You have every right to feel angry. The anger comes from her breaking promises and that she broke various boundaries you may have) I give her a kiss on the forehead and go downstairs and cry my eyes out and then have a pity masturbation session that leaves me sleepy and depressed.
This morning she calls out of work and is more depressed than yesterday. Here's my issue. So if I act all depressed and moody, she offers pity sex so that I'll be in a better mood. (Yes, but it wouldn't feel the same if you go through with it) However, if I act supportive, loving, and attentive like I should, I get rejected. (She has been breaking promises and not sticking with her words, so doing all of this reinforces her behavior of doing this. Remember, you are doing this as a way to possible get a certain outcome.) The lesson I'm learning is being an asshole is more likely to get me what I need. (I can understand why you feel angry, but doing this will only make things worst) I don't want to be an asshole. I want someone who wants me for being a good husband and father, who desires me for the best parts of me, not the worst. I'm thinking more and more that we won't be able to resolve this. I don't know what to do next. (What are your boundaries? ,what are your needs on this marriage?, what's important for you?, what are you not willing to tolerate? and what things you did during the beginning on the first stages of dating that made her fall in love with you?)
@freshLight64, Thank you so much for this thoughtful reply and analysis. I really like how you took my words and posted your thoughts so I could see it in context. You are so right. I have boundary issues. I've been working with my therapist on setting boundaries but when it comes to my wife I just can't seem to take a firm stance.
I know she doesn't want to hurt me. She is coping the only way she learned how based on her growing up in an abusive household where she had to placate her father for survival. That's why it's her go to. She admits when I'm angry it scares her. I don't raise my voice or threaten her or anything. Still, it triggers her. That makes me suppress my anger until I can't any longer. It's not a healthy dynamic at all. But without her taking steps to address her past traumas, I don't know what else I can do.
When we first started dating, I think she was attracted to my easy-going nature and ability to stand up for myself and love ones. I was a hard worker and goal-oriented. I had a plan for our future even if she had trouble being optimistic. It made her feel safe and secure for the first time in her life. Now we are more secure than ever financially. Her father is dead. She has nothing to fear or worry about really. Now my anger and frustration in our marriage as well as her job are the new boogeymen. Where I used to provide her security, now our relationship is the source of insecurity. I don't know how to untangle that since the lack of intimacy is what is causing that insecurity. I can't fix that alone.
@buckynwd
You are welcome, hopefully things get better for you.
I've been working with my therapist on setting boundaries but when it comes to my wife I just can't seem to take a firm stance. (I do understand the struggles of setting boundaries with others, it can be tough doing this with a person you love. There could be a variety of reasons why its tough for you, but I'm guessing you fear losing her if you take a firm stance? or perhaps a fear of her reaction?. Setting boundaries are very important in relationships, without them love and sexual intimacywill slowly fade. The other person will also take you for granted when avoiding standing up for yourself and setting boundaries)
I know she doesn't want to hurt me. She is coping the only way she learned how based on her growing up in an abusive household where she had to placate her father for survival. (She went through a horrible past, so this can impact how she is as a person. This probably causes to constantly feel unsafe and hypervigilant of another person hurting her in the same way as her past. This can also lead to her behaving in inconsistent ways on terms words matching her actions) That's why it's her go to. She admits when I'm angry it scares her. (This definetly sounds like a trigger, it can either be real or perceived. This is where she's reliving her past while being in the present, so you will see how she will either shut down, or explode on the outside) I don't raise my voice or threaten her or anything. Still, it triggers her. (The abuse she went through seems like it was rough so it's still very ingrained in her unconscious. There's certain words, actions or body language that will make her think about her father in her unconscious) That makes me suppress my anger until I can't any longer. (It's understandable, it can be tough communicating when her triggers come. Do you ever felt safe expressing your anger in the past?) It's not a healthy dynamic at all. But without her taking steps to address her past traumas, I don't know what else I can do. (This is a tough position to be because it's important for her to address these issues)
When we first started dating, I think she was attracted to my easy-going nature and ability to stand up for myself (Standing up for yourself is key right here. Remember, we teach others how we want to be treated. Standing up for yourself communicates self-respect, and in a relationship is one of the most important components to make a long last relationship. Love and respect go hand in hand, if one of them is missing then things will slowly fall apart) and love ones. I was a hard worker and goal-oriented. I had a plan for our future even if she had trouble being optimistic. It made her feel safe and secure for the first time in her life. (I get the feeling she wants you be and do the same things you did when you two started dating and then falling in love with you. She will become unsure if you are different (present) from the guy she fell in love throughout the first stages of dating) Now we are more secure than ever financially. Her father is dead. She has nothing to fear or worry about really. (This is minimizing how she feels. There's tons of past trauma she has not dealt with, so it will often come into surface because she has not heal from it. The mind doesn't understand past and present, so it just feels like the past=present) ) Now my anger and frustration in our marriage as well as her job are the new boogeymen. (I believe she wants to feel heard and understood without hearing advice) Where I used to provide her security, now our relationship is the source of insecurity. I don't know how to untangle that since the lack of intimacy is what is causing that insecurity. I can't fix that alone.
Hi @buckynwd
I'm so sorry you're going through such a tough time. I hope things are getting better for you. I agree with what freshLight64; dating and romancing your partner is just important after several years of marriage as it is in the first few months of a relationship, and issues from past trauma don't just go away because the perpetrator is no longer around, they need to be acknowledged, understood and actively worked through, preferably with a professional.
I definitely agree that there are some boundary issues at play but more than that, it seems like there are some communication issues as well. Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you do the things you think a good husband does (i.e. chores around the house, spending time with the kids, etc) and expect intimacy in return. The problem with that is, unless you verbally communicate that to her, she just thinks you realize she's having a hard time with something and are showing that you care about her. If you haven't done so already, it might be a good idea to sit down with her and have an honest conversation about how you've been feeling lately and that your needs aren't being met, as well as asking her if something is going on with her.
Some other possibilities that might be worth considering are also that she might be experiencing menopausal or peri-menopausal symptoms (you mentioned you've been together for 15 years so I'm assuming she's in her late 30s or early 40s, which is about the age when women enter menopause). Generally they involve your hormones going a little crazy and cause mood swings, hot flashes, low sex drive, vaginal dryness, among other things.
I hope this one doesn't hold any water but another possibility is that she has just outgrown the relationship. You mentioned that when you two first started dating, she fell for you because she felt safe and secure with you. In other words, the need that the relationship was fulfilling was providing safety and security to her. Now things have changed, her father is no longer a part of her life and her money problems are gone, so the need that your relationship was fulfilling is no longer a need. The validity of this possibility is dependent on how long her father has been dead and she has been financially secure. If it has been a few years and the intimacy issue is recent, then the cause is likely something else.
Anyway, I hope the insight helps.
