Sex Therapy
Hey everyone,
My wife and I live in a sexless marriage. (Having sex less than 10 times in the last 12 months) My next step is to go to a sex therapist but I need to make sure I go to the one that benefits us and not just one who tries to get me to change and accept a loveless relationship.
I have tried to research to death everything to do on the internet. So to clarify, I would like to explain that I don't expect to have sex a certain number of times. To me quality is far more important than quantity.
I would like my wife to sexually desire me and fantasize about me the way I do her. I would like sex with me to be more of a priority than most things in her life.
I compliment her, go on date nights, stay up late doing dishes and other chores while she is resting and watching TV so her days less stressful. Still nothing.
Thinking back, the only time sex was good was when she was drinking 3 or more drinks in a night. This has become now only twice a year. I think she has realized it too. This tells me that it's something physiological with her. This is why I think I need professional help.
So my question for everyone is: For anyone who has gone to couples/marriage therapy, has it worked for you? Are there any exercises/homework that you suggest? Is there a way to filter out therapist so I know I'm going to one that will help?
This may not be the response you're looking for, but...
I feel like the first thing a therapist would tell you is to take into consideration what your wife wants (you never mentioned if she wanted this too), and that she may not want the same things as you (you can't force someone into wanting sex), and that it's a bit concerning that you want sex to be the most important thing in her life. Over family, love, interests, respect, a sense of competency, anything?
Frankly you only seem to be thinking about your own desires, or at least that's how it's portrayed.
@Phthalo
No. Not the response I'm looking for but it is what I'd expect from an average therapist.
I've taken into consideration what she wants over the past 10 years. Now I want her to make her libido a priority. Not meaning that it should come before anything else. I do admit that it is my desire for her to desire me. I don't see anything wrong with that.
@MrP0SITIVE
I've been doing a lot of research over the last few years with regards to testosterone in aging men and the changes that result in libido and body functioning as a result. In my research, naturally there is yin/yang so I also found women who complain of what you're discussing in your post with a male who isn't sexually performing within their relationship. At times, it's related to hormonal - testosterone (lack of) and fixable and other times it can be due to mental issues like depression or stress where the road is less paved. Often times, the medications for treating the mental disorders actually create other problems such as a lack of libido.
I've seen arguments on many sides of this issue along with the arguments for couples that are in the same situation that you find yourself in. I've also found r/deadbedrooms on Reddit which brings people together that have the same problem that you are facing. It isn't a support group, but perhaps it's nice to know that there are people out there with the same problem and attempting to find ways to either cope, deal with the situation, or even just have some sense of connection to those that know/understand what they are going through.
Additionally, I've heard from women or men who are on the low libido side of the situation and feel that there is absolutely nothing wrong. (much to the bewilderment to their partner)
I haven't seen much of this on 7 Cups because the entire site attempts to run away quickly from any sexual issues - this includes the "sexual forum" which is pretty much dead. I've tried to resurrect it, but with little success and with little support from the site itself. Apparently, everyone is terrified of sexual issues. So, I do understand why you brought this topic up within Relationship Support, glad that you did.
I do like the way you're approaching this situation, maturely. You're working to try to fix it but it is clear from your post that she doesn't feel there is an issue even after you've clearly brought it to her attention. You've done your research too. Quality vs. Quantity sticks out to me in your post too, that is also a very mature manner of approach. You have a very normal desire that men AND women have which is to FEEL desirable sexually to your partner. There is nothing abnormal about it.
I saw that you interchanged loveless and sexless though - that is concerning. It's actually not the same thing at all. I'm hoping you realize the difference. I can easily see though, how one will greatly impact the other especially over time.
Her previous drinking schedule means that it lowered her inhibitions and allowed her to remove the mental block that she's applied to sex and I think you're perfectly on the right track with the physiological aspect. You're going to want a couples therapist that specializes in sexual issues. That is, if you can get her to go. It's important, no.. vital that you BOTH attend these sessions if you expect anything to genuinely change. Understand that the change you're clearly looking for is LONG TERM, not a band-aid nor a temporary fix just to placate you for a little while. This happens far too often.
Living within a sexless marriage is not ok unless BOTH of you are 100% satisfied with the arrangement. Clearly, in this situation you are both unhappy with your sex life. She wants it less, you want it more. Usually, the first step is to establish if perhaps there is anything MEDICALLY wrong with your wife. If that is ruled out, then therapy is the next option. If none of those work effectively, you will then need to consider your life plan. Does the rest of your life include being with someone who is not interested in you sexually or on a once a year plan? Is she willing to open the relationship, liberating you to find your sexual needs elsewhere, safely?
Living within a sexless marriage is not typically fun for those individuals that I've met who have growing resentment towards their partners due to a lack of affection. Resentment is like heavy cement in a relationship. It will impact many things around you both and eventually will kill what you both share. Romance and sexuality are important to most relationships for many reasons. The closeness, the connection, the desire, and of course the exercise is very healthy. There are some relationships out there which thrive in an asexual format and that is their mutual choice. However, it's clear that is not the path you've chosen and not what you agreed to when you decided to get married.
There is nothing wrong with what you want. While you cannot force someone to desire you, want you, or have sex with you.. it is nice when sexual attraction and action is reciprocated by the person that you've chosen to spend the rest of your life with. When it isn't, disappointments pile up and feelings are easily hurt. Hurt eventually turns to resentment, which is why you've likely posted what you've written to this forum. You've been doing everything you can think of but now it is time to let a professional step in and see if things can be mended.
If her libido and sexual issues do not improve - you will then need to decide what you want. Do you plan to stay with her regardless or do you decide that the rest of your life should be spent with someone who sees you the way you see them? That will be one of the most difficult decisions that you will need to make and no therapist or forum will be able to guide you in making that choice. It must come from within because ultimately, you must live with the consequences of your choice. While it may end up better in the end, the hard part is making the choice. If you decide to stay, understand that you've then accepted the situation for what it is.. and more importantly, what it will likely never become. The big point I'm trying to make in this paragraph is: Talk to your wife - open the communication flood gates - get it out. You both must talk this out together and it isn't a light conversation - in one hour increments - no more, no less.
You're both married - likely you can both come to a decision together that is MUTUALLY beneficial. Remember that marriage includes things such as compromise. However, one word of caution - I know you do not want her compromising by just going through the motions, giving in, and pretending - so, watch out for that. A real compromise means that you both recognize the issue, seek the appropriate help, and put a path forward - if there is no resolve and you both decide this isn't working - again, make that decision together by talking it out.
There is no reason for you to live the rest of your life unfulfilled in your marriage when it comes to sex. While some people will tell you that it's simply how married life is or a million other excuses or justifications - understand that your life is your own and you have a right to happiness. If that happiness includes an active and healthy sex life, so be it. Do not let other people's opinions dictate your future - make those choices that you can live with and become firm about what you want - then take action and go after it.
She may be part of that or she may not - suppose we'll see how things turn out.
On the flip side of this coin, there are many men AND women out there who have everything they could ever want with their partner EXCEPT a fulfilling sexual relationship. A lot of people decide to stay for those reasons alone. Some people leave because it's important to them. Some people open their relationship and find that sexual satisfaction outside the marriage works and keeps everyone happy. Some people cheat, yes that happens. Regardless of what you decide - know that your approach should continue the pathway you've been heading - attempting at all costs to find a reasonable solution that works for everyone AND hopefully keeps you both together and happy. Life isn't a movie though, hard decisions are on the way - but, something tells me that you both will talk and figure this out.
Good luck.
@Sventek
Sventek, Thank you for reading, understanding and taking the time to make an excellent response.
Testosterone- Her previous general practitioner was very interested in helping her with her libido. She never brought it up to him and he was the one who made it an important issue. I don't remember if she had low levels but he prescribed it in the form of an underarm roll-on stick. She used it 3-4 times then stopped because she was more concerned about growing more facial hair.
Depression or stress- We have had numerous stress related issues over the past year and I feel that we will be coming up to a paved road within the next month or two. That's why I want to be proactive and form a plan now. I know I need to look out for any potential roadblocks so we don't over book ourselves, start new construction, book the kids with too many activities, over-plan, ect. She does have a lot of anxiety. She was just prescribed an anti-depressant called Venlafaxine. Many people complain that it decreases sex drives. Have you found any research as far as anxiety meds that help increase libido? I've read that Xanax taken only as needed, not on a regular bases, helps with it.
Additionally, I've heard from women or men who are on the low libido side of the situation and feel that there is absolutely nothing wrong.- I agree. How do you get someone to seek help when they don't feel they need it in the first place? I think what bothers me the most is the miss communication. My wife thinks I just want to have sex. But the truth is that I want her to have a normal libido.
I do like the way you're approaching this situation, maturely.- Thank you. That's because you have a normal sex drive and can understand. People without one take offense and feel that I'm being selfish or male chauvinistic.
I saw that you interchanged loveless and sexless though - that is concerning.- :) Don't be. I know the difference. I said it because because most women prefer to call it lovemaking. I do find this topic funny. Because people tend to use it in ways that only help their interest. For example a cheater would never call it lovemaking. Yes, I love her. I tell her too. 50 times more than she tells me. Even though it feels like we are roommates who go on date nights.
BOTH attend these sessions- I agree that we both will need to go and continue to want to go to help our relationship. I've mentioned it before and she has said that she's not interested because it cost so much and we can figure it out ourselves. So what is the proper way to get her to want to go and see the importance and value?
If Medical and therapy are ruled out?-Outsourcing for me would just be a band-aid. To me a perfect sex life is with someone you love. I guess I've never thought about loving multiple women and how that would work out. But lets just hope for the best and try the medical/therapy route before looking at other options. I've also read that once you show a woman a what a good sex life is like that you can't trust them not to cheat. Because they've never had the urge before to learn control. (I'm willing to take that risk because ultimately I want her to be happy.)
one hour increments - no more, no less.- Great idea. How often?
I know you do not want her compromising by just going through the motions, giving in, and pretending so, watch out for that.- I know. I'm very sensitive to that. I've heard before a suggestion somewhere that we just need to schedule time for it. Make a specific time and day so we both expect it and it will make it easier because we both know it's going to happen. I think it's completely wrong because there is zero reciprocating sexual attraction.
I agree that communication is the most important part. Do you recommend that I try to filter out or prescreen therapists before going as a couple?
Thanks again for your genuine response.
@MrP0SITIVE
1. Libido
Clearly if he prescribed the roll-on, he saw something in her labs that raised concern and prompted him to start the first trial of fixing it. If she's worried about developing male features, she can stop worrying about that. With taking any hormonal medications, it needs to be monitored. This means that he will likely balance out her estrogen and testosterone chemical make-up so that it's under control. The dose can also be adjusted too in order to prevent male-like features such as facial hair. She could bring those concerns up on her next visit and see that what I'm saying is exact and true. Clearly, I can understand her point of view but, I doubt he'd give her anything formulated strong enough that would cause those issues right off the bat. Usually, they will start her out on the lowest dose to see how she interacts with it first before making any further adjustments and blood work is necessary to ensure proper balance. You might re-start those discussions because if it's a physical issue and not a mental block then, most of your battle will be over with a chemistry re-adjustment. It's always recommended to look at the chemistry and body related issues first prior to starting verbal therapy - because if it's a chemical disorder, no amount of therapy will likely result in long term gains or change.
2. Plan
Yes, good idea to start the plan early. Proactive is key.
3. Depression/Stress and Anti-Depressants
You didn't mention the dosage but, note that Venlafaxine does cause men and women issues with not only sexual arousal but also climax (orgasm). It has been reported as a number one side effect. Some people have indicated that it has lessened over time, even after a dosage increase, but a top disadvantage to the drug itself for most is a lack of sexual arousal and drive. While people can still have sex on it, the drug impacts satisfaction and desire. I doubt this is the direction you both are looking to go. While you can counter the drug with another, I'd recommend taking a huge step back and asking yourselves if anti-depressants or anxiety medications are really the answer to resolve issues. I'm not a qualified medical professional to make a diagnosis over the internet, nor am I positioned to speak directly regarding your situation with dosage, medications that are chosen, or the underlying reasons for its use. I can, from experience, tell you that if there is a way to remedy your anxiety/stress naturally - it will likely be the pathway with the least amount of side effects AS LONG AS there are no other underlying issues that are complicating matters within brain chemistry. It depends on how depression and anxiety are playing a role in this situation which can be discussed with a medical professional, while bringing low libido issues right out onto the table for him to make a judgment call on the correct dose, procedure, or method to bring some relief to you both. Remember, this situation is really about your marriage, the both of you, so - health in this discussion revolves around you both. What impacts one, impacts the other - this is something you both should attend and bring up in your next in-person session with your doctor.
4. Do I really need help?
How do you help someone important to you realize that their low sex drive and lack of desire impacts you and your marriage? Well, first thing is first - you bring this to their attention. It's the truth. It isn't drama. It isn't one sided. No different than if her meatloaf tasted horrible but she insists on cooking it every few months, yet no one eats it, not even the dog. At some point, you have to either help her make it better in the kitchen or you have to sit her down and have an intervention. Personally, I'd prefer to help her with it in the kitchen because it's less of a confrontation and perhaps less hurt feelings but - sometimes, you must rip the band-aid off and just have it out - telling her the truth that the meatloaf sucks and please stop making it or make something else. In this case, you have to decide a tactful way to bring this to her attention, help her understand your point of view, why it's important to you, and ultimately what you'd like to have happen. You'll need to be graphic and descriptive about what you want to GET what you want. Going around the bushes here isn't an option because you need to be blunt, direct, but without attacking her or trying to upset her. It's a calm and collected discussion. Look at it this way, you're working things out with her and this is not being done in a horrible way. You're approaching it right, you're saying it right, and you're expecting long term results, not any quick fixes or band-aids. You'll have to lay it out on the table that it's not just sex you want but that you want the intimacy that goes with it. You'd like for her to desire you the way you desire her. Basically, you'd like to have a healthy sex life with her and there is not a thing wrong with that. Do not allow anyone make you feel guilty for it either. This also means not allowing people to distract you from what you want. Just be clear, be direct, and do so without feeling the need to add too much emotion into it. This isn't Days of Our Lives and there are no awards for Best Day Time Drama. It's also true that when you awaken her sex drive you may not be sure where it can take you, but don't be too afraid. Sexuality is something you both can experience together and in many varieties. The possibilities are really endless, just look at the internet - who would have thought?
5. Cost of Repair
I realize that the sessions can be expensive. Some health plans may cover a portion of the visits. You can space out the visits to where they are more financially manageable. She is right though on you both learning how to do this yourselves, to a point. The purpose of those sessions is to teach the both of you how to properly communicate and resolve your differences. The sessions are not a crutch, but only a moment in time where you both need an intermediary to assist you through a difficult time in your marriage. Therefore, therapy should teach you both what you really need to know - better communication, compromise, and once those lessons are fully learned and you both know how - do away with therapy until you need it again or perhaps never again. Therefore, the cost can be minimized with a benefit or gift to your marriage - hopefully one that lasts. If you both already knew how to do that, how to overcome this hurdle in your marriage, you would have already done it by now. Clearly, you both need this, for a short time at least. The real financial impact to that can be light or heavy depending on how much you need and what you get out of it. If you both just go expecting the therapist to do all the work, well - then you both won't get much out of it. If you both go to the sessions, leave - talk it out, learn from it - put things into real practice - then, you'll both do very well. Pro Tip: Focus on the CORE ISSUES not the SYMPTOMS. That will also save you money too. The ability to demonstrate value means that you both walk away from those sessions feeling better about yourselves, your marriage, and ultimately the path forward. She shouldn't need to be convinced to go - because, the marriage is TWO people - not one. Never allow this situation to become a single point of view problem. It's not. Your marriage has TWO people in it - with two different and differing points of view on what the core issues are. The both of you must find the core issues, solve them together, and hopefully come out strong. If she asks why it's important - ask her if she feels your marriage is important to her. I'll bet she'll admit it is, very much to her.
6. If Medical and Therapy are Out.
Many couples have been down the road you're traveling, some make it and some do not. Some of them open their marriage and find unexpected high satisfaction from those situations. The only reason why I even mentioned this previously is to give you a broader perspective than just ONE way to solve this situation. There are actually many ways this can be resolved and there are no right or wrong answers to the core issues. You both must decide the pathway together and either you both find a way to make this situation work to your mutual satisfaction or not - time will tell, effort will tell a lot more, and actions taken will shine a huge light on what turns your marriage takes. Think of it like a "Chose Your Own Adventure" book. You may not be able to MAKE your wife feel or think anything - but you can certainly guide and influence - perhaps even find new ways to happiness you didn't consider before. The situation isn't as black and white as it seems from your current point of view.
7. Hour Increments
To prevent burn-out and fatigue, discussions are kept to a one hour maximum. You can have several discussions with your wife but, try to keep those conversations down to an hour at a time with breaks. You can talk about a LOT in an hour together. Remember that you're not going to solve everything in just a couple conversations. This is a tough one. We do this to ensure that you both do not become resentful or exhausted by the situation itself. The conversations have a benefit threshold to them and one hour is the sweet spot for most couples. Conversations are nice, but they are even better with small actions items each of you will agree to do - kind of like homework. If you both are going to try to improve your relationship - remember that talking is key but so is action. Talk without Action isn't typically helpful to either of you.
8. Speaking of time, scheduling sex?
Um, I'm not a fan. I think there is a huge benefit to spontaneous sex from both of you. When sex feels more like a job or work - it stops being fun and more of something else to get knocked out. Besides scheduling sex goes against our biology, you can't time arousal that way at least in a method that creates a bond or connection with someone. Stick to spontaneous sex and rip up a schedule. You both should decide a schedule or anywhere, anytime (as long as the police at not involved or it involves innocent bystanders)
9. Pre-Screening Therapists
Why not? Remember that you both should choose the sex therapist though... you need her buy-in to make this successful.
@Sventek
Thanks again for your time. You have given me a lot of direction, hope, clarification, and understanding. I know personally I have a lot to do but at least I'll be more effecient at it.
Thanks again.
@MrP0SITIVE
"I would like my wife to sexually desire me and fantasize about me the way I do her. I would like sex with me to be more of a priority than most things in her life. . . . I think she has realized it too. This tells me that it's something physiological with her."
i'm a virgin and not married before. so you can skip my reply.
if this were a girlfriend, i would've advised to go for another girlfriend. lol.
but honestly, i feel martial bonding is more than just sex. and i honestly feel that women do not have as strong of a desire for sex as men do. i feel that women can try to pretend to like sex, either to gain something or while intoxicated. but generally, i feel men have a stronger sex drive.
but yeah, you can probably just give her more drinks, though that might not be best for her health. you seem to be doing a lot. but yeah, shes just not interested in sex much anymore.
if anything, i think there has to be something that she can gain from the sex specifically. maybe compliments during sex or maybe candles or a vlean room during sex. maybe make certain things exclusive to sex. like clean the room only when you are having sex, but no other time. just something that would make the sex more meaningful to her or more attractive for her.