Traumatic Experiences Community Daily Check-in: Sunday 30th September 2018
Hey Trauma family,
Todays topic is boundaries! You guys asked for it so we are going to delve in together!
I think the topic of boundaries all in one chunk is too big so Im going to break it down and start with physical boundaries.
My mum in law was having a dispute with her neighbour who told her she had to fix a broken fence. The truth was, that fence was legally the neighbours property and therefore she was the one that needed to fix the fence. Sound familiar?
Fences are really important for demarcating areas of ownership, keeping out the neighbours dog, or maybe keeping yours in (although cats can be a bit tricky!!!)
When it comes to humans, we have physical boundaries, it starts with our bodies, the skin protects our organs, it lets air and vitamin D in from the sun, and lets out toxins like sweat. Without it we would be exposed to bacteria and not be able to let in what we need to be healthy and let out things that can be harmful.
Everyone has a right to say what is or isnt acceptable for their body. Its called body autonomy! You have the right to change your mind about things even if you agreed to them before. Like I love hugs, but when Im anxious I dont like to be touched and both are my choice.
We also have physical space around us and we are allowed to say how close someone is allowed to come to us. Some one can be literally in your face and harass you without touching you so physical space is important in make us and others feel comfortable.
Do you feel ok telling people what touch is ok for you? And what isnt?
Are there any physical boundary scenarios you struggle with?
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@LifeIsMyCanvas
Hi Canvas, thanks for talking about this topic.
No touch is okay for me. Not anymore.
It never worked when I drew my boundaries. It was never respected. I don't think what I asked for was much.
@humorousBeing8966
I can understand that, for a long time I didn't want to be touched either. My concern is though, that you are missing out on love and care.
The key to boundaries is to find a person who you can trust yourself to let them care for you, it might be that right now there isn't that person for you and I really hope you can find someone in the future.
In the mean time do you have a pet or a teddy you can cuddle if you feel you need to? or do you not exprecience needing that?
If you can't answer that's ok, I just wanted to give some points to consider and to show you we care for you.
@LifeIsMyCanvas
It doesn't seem like I can trust my therapist either...
I've been needing to hug teddy all day every day now.
@humorousBeing8966
aww, i'm glad you have your teddy. Do you want to talk about why you don't trust your therapist?
@LifeIsMyCanvas
I don't think I know how or when to trust..maybe sometimes when I say certain things it's taken the wrong way or the severity was minimized. Maybe she had concluded all that I was saying into certain emotions before I was even sure what my words meant or what those emotions entail .. maybe I'm just too vague but I don't how to talk about extensively about myself, especially my problems.
@humorousBeing8966
Trust definately takes time, especially with a therapist because of the type of things we need to share with them. Are you able to tell your therapist when you feel things are taken the wrong way or you feel minimised?
Therapy should be solely about you, so if you are able to say what isn't working for you and she doesn't understand it might just be that she isn't the right fit for you? We all need space to feel heard and to say, 'no actually I didn't mean that, that way'. It's an important part of active listening and connection.
I was trying to think back to when I'd felt like this to see if there was something to help. I remember I drew pictures or wrote notes for my counsellor to help me when I wasn't able to talk. I think it helped us build a connection which later helped me open up and talk. Do you think that might help? if not we can have a look for something that might be better for you?
@LifeIsMyCanvas
Oh I think I should definitely bring a sketchpad to my next session. I did once and wrote down what I wanted to say and was able to get one thing out of my mind. I guess I was also able to portray my frustration out on the paper instead of myself or my things and she said that it was good to bring that. It probably would be easier than to have to tell her directly what I feel or think especially if I don't know or don't want an upset reaction from her or myself.
@humorousBeing8966
That sounds like a great idea! Maybe if you are feeling ok with that you could also add a happy of sad face to tell her how her response made you feel? It might help her get to know you a bit more?
@LifeIsMyCanvas
Maybe I could try that if I'm conscious of it...
I also find that I tend to zone out if she points out a thought pattern of mine that I haven't considered before and I'm trying to decide if what she's saying is true or merely her conclusion from how I've been portraying myself. If I don't believe what she's saying I tend to get defensive and try to find reasons countering her argument and I think that frustrates her but then after the sessions I tend to end up in a tough spot sometimes until I start considering what she said in other areas of my life and try to not do that anymore. She doesn't usually tell me what else to do instead though so I guess it could be detrimental either way - staying with the same thought pattern or letting it go but not replacing it with something else more positive.
@humorousBeing8966
I understand a bit better now ty.
I think that you are actually quite self aware and it is totally normal to want to take time to process what someone is telling you and decide if it is for you or not. It's actually very healthy 
I can understand feeling defensive, after all those thought patterns helped us so far! It sounds like the new tough spot experience prompting you to consider what might be a better approach. I hear you with the nothing to replace it with feelings, perhaps you could ask her for some ideas about new skills you could learn so that she knows what you are looking for? I believe that therapists don't like to tell clients what to do, instead it's more helpful to help them find their own answers so it's totally ok to say what you need when you are ready too. You are also welcome to check in with us and ask for ideas too. But know we are also here to help you find your answers and what is right for you is the most important thing!
@LifeIsMyCanvas
Thank you for your kind words and guidance! It definitely seems like I can move towards progress more if I have some direction.
hey there!
Do you feel ok telling people what touch is ok for you? And what isnt?
depends on the situation. i do tell them if i dont want something, but sometimes i feel uncomfortable saying so. i dont struggle with physical contact in general, only if it comes out of nowhere and surprises me.
@Hope3729
I totally understand that, I don't likebeing surprised by touch either. I'm of the view that people should ask if you are ok with them touching you, especially if they don't know you!!!
What about saying no to people makes you uncomfortable?
@LifeIsMyCanvas saying no sometimes makes me uncomfortable because i feel a bit guilty afterwards... but its important to set boundaries and to speak them out loud!
@Hope3729 I agree. Unexpected physical contact is hard to know how to react to.
@Kate
Yes! It can be very hard.
@LifeIsMyCanvas
****TRIGGER WARNING****
Canvas – this topic is so very hard for me right now. I'm shaking and crying and trying to stay present long enough to write this out. I considered not responding and just saying hi.
Do you feel ok telling people what touch is ok for you? And what isnt?
I try to tell people, but I don't think they always take me seriously.
Are there any physical boundary scenarios you struggle with?
I don't like touch at all. I don't like handshakes, hugs, taps on the shoulder none of it. I'm not okay with being touched.
People don't follow it sometimes and I don't understand because I've told them. Some people at work think it is funny to tap my shoulder from behind and watch me jump. They don' realize it takes me hours to recover from that.
Recently my physical boundary was breached by more than jokes. There is a lady I went walking with. We walked once or twice a week for a couple of years. She has a guy friend who would come with us sometimes. I didn't like him coming along, but he is her friend and I didn't feel like it was my place to say no. People already think I'm weird enough without me dictating who can walk. I told him many many times that I don't like to be touched, but he would keep trying.
I'm going to use tea analogy now, because I can't make myself write it any other way. He told me many times that he wanted to make me tea. I told him I don't like tea. He insisted that I would like his tea. I told him I don't like tea. I told him I didn't want tea, with him or anyone else. No tea. On 9/1 he decided that he was going to show me that I did like tea. I told him again that I didn't like tea. No tea. When I realized that he meant to make me drink tea I dissociated. I wasn't able to insist on my physical boundary, because I wasn't there anymore. This is why I am to blame. This is why it is my fault that I let him give me tea. I couldn't fight.
I can't decide if I want to post this or not. I'm so scared of people knowing. I'm going to post and then I'm going to hide under my weighted blanket.
@Anomalia
@practicalIdeal2007
I think, no actually I know that you are really brave for sharing this. I also know that you wont be alone in these feelings. I know I've felt them at different points of my life. You are totally not weird, you completely make sense in the context of your story. If people take the time to listen then they will understand that too.
I was thinking about some of the work scenarios you mentioned. I think that they are seeing it as a game, which is actually very cruel for you. Perhaps a consequence is needed? It could be assertive communication, maybe saying ' if you continue to touch me after I have asked you not to I will view it as harrassment. Then if they continue, you could report it to your employer? Unwanted touch is harrassment, even if it is not of a sexual nature.
Regarding the man that insisted on tea... and that causing you to dissociate. It is never your fault for dissociating. Dissociation is an unconcious choice that is pre written into the brain due to trauma. It is not always possible to control it, but with practice, grounding and staying present can lead to it not being the first reaction of your brain. While you are dissociating you are not fully concious and as the tea video says, unconcious people don't want tea. So my lovely, it really is not your fault that he gave you tea.
I do understand from the situation that there were warning signs that he intended on giving you tea regardless. I also see that you saw them but perhaps felt unable to walk away from the man because you didn't want your friend to think badly of you. Your instincts are totally there for a reason, and if someone else isn't ok with you asserting yourself to be safe, that is not ok on their part. If they want to tell you you are weird then you can't really stop them, but you can still be safe regardless of how they percieve it.
@practicalIdeal2007
Thank you for posting this, and I hope you don't mind me replying 
I want to say that I really admire your courage in posting and the clarity in describing what you are going through.
I'm really glad you were able to share it here.
@practicalIdeal2007
Your tea analogy happened to me twice. The first time I didn't know I could say no to tea, I ended up going into 'yes mode' because I was scared to say anything else (after realising no wasn't going to work). I dissociated and forgot the incident for 6+ years. The second time I honestly don't know if someone spiked my drink or what but I know I dissociated, I have snapshot memories that I still feel ashamed of now.
What I am trying to say here, which I am failing at saying is that as much as you feel it is your fault. It isn't. I still struggle with this, and feel so much guilt. But over time I have realised that all I was trying to do was survive. And its the best way my brain knew how to. If you need to blame someone, blame the people who took away your no in the first place. The people who made it so that the only way out is to dissociate. But don't blame yourself, please. *hugs*. Finally blame the person who has decided to take advantage, and who is ignoring your no's now, as much as you can try to convince yourself they didn't know, because eventually you gave in. They knew, and they ignored you.
I felt sick at myself and what I had done, until I realised that I had a history that meant I was already vunerable, and someone was seeing that and using it. And its horrible, and I am so so so sorry this has happened to you. But you can move on, and there is life, love and many other things afterwards. You are worth it, and worth living for <3.
Really wishing you the best, and you were so brave speaking out in here *hands you your teady to hug* :)
@practicalIdeal2007 Thank you so much for sharing. The way you told your story was powerful and brave. I really don't think it was your fault that he gave you tea. You spoke up and told him your boundaries but were still disrespected. This is not your fault and I hope you can see how strong you are.
@practicalIdeal2007
Ohhhh this is VERY brave to share!! And please please please believe that you are NOT at fault in any way!!!!!! If you said, NO, then it's NOT your fault. I had something similar happen and it made me scared and mad and I got away!!! So, I understand this! I hope you can find some comfort in your fort and that you can find the courage to tell your counselor if you have one. It's important to not hold this inside. You deserve to feel safe! You deserve to feel comfortable walking. Here is a BIG safe internet only ❤️of encouragement. Keep sharing and keep trying to ground yourself. ❤️
@LifeIsMyCanvas @humorousBeing8966 @Lilibuth12 @Kate @KLM3278 @NoneTheWiser
Thank you so very much for your kindness and caring. Telling what happened was incredibly hard. Writing it out and reading your replies has released tears I so needed to cry. I'm so very broken right now, but maybe I don't always have to be this way.
@practicalIdeal2007
It absolutely doesn't have to be this way forever and honestly I'm honoured that you shared with us.
@practicalIdeal2007
You don't always have to be this way. Why? Because you are strong. I hope you can talk to a real good counselor and start your healing. It is not easy, but you will be so so glad you did. It's not a race and you go at your own pace. Thinking of you today💕
@LifeIsMyCanvas
Hi canvas and my trauma family,
Do you feel ok telling people what touch is ok for you? And what isnt?
Are there any physical boundary scenarios you struggle with?
hard topic for me too, yes I struggle I can't really define my boundaries and telling people Bout physical touch. I definitely can't hug people.
I had a hard time today too, some was standing to close to me at a service and it made me nauseous, ridiculous as it sounds tho this person is known to be an unsafe person. So probably that too.
but I'm trying v hard to start saying no and keeping a distant from people who trigger or disturb me.
@energeticPenny8
I love that you are listening to you instincts and trying to stay away from triggering people.
I's definately tough to think about how to remove yourself from a situation that makes you uncomfortable. It definately does not sound ridiculous in fact I can vividly recall a simular situation when I felt simularly.
Could you think of something you could do or say next time? Perhaps if someone is too close you could say 'I need some space please' and if they respond negatively perhaps ' I appreciate what you are saying but I do really need some space, perhaps you could let me past so I can find somewhere I feel more comfortable?'.
I thought to include that because we need to assertively communicate boundaries to others. We might need part of the solution from them, like being let out, but by communicating in this way you are still in control. You are maintaining your boundary and the negociation is about how to meet your boundary need rather than why or if it is valid. Boundaries are valid because they are yours
@LifeIsMyCanvas thank you canvas, it definitely makes sense.. Gathering my courage to say that next time.
@energeticPenny8 Thank you for sharing your story and honesty. I had the same thought as Canvas about preparing something to say in case this happens again in the future. I know it can be scary to speak up sometimes when you're feeling uncomfortable, but you feeling safe is important.
I go to a Church where it is a practice that we greet each other with a hug. I still today have fear of people getting to close in my space. So I tried to redirect my hugs to a handshake at church. What happened with that was as I reached my hand out to shake the hand of the deacon he pulled my arm and pulled me into him grabbing my breast. His wife was right in the Church. I was no good for the rest of the service all I could do was cry. I told my husband about it after church but he did nothing which hurt even more. When this happened I was in total shock. I did not believe what had just happened. I quit going to church and was asked by the pastor why? I did not want to tell him I felt ashamed< I felt guilty as if it was my fault. M mind could not grasp why I always seemed to be a target for sexual abuse. I was not a pretty woman I said, I was not dressing in revealing or short clothing, I was not flirting or doing anything that would warrant such behavior. From the age of I had been told that it was something about my eyes that made them want me. I had bedroom eyes. To this day I can not look at people in the face. But then that states I am a liar when you don't look people in the face according to society I began to walk with my head down as to ward off would be attackers so I thought. That did not work either. I think I wear a sign on my forehead that says I am a Victim Do Me.
I had to learn to listen to my instinct to about being so cautious with who I am about now. Then one good meaningful nugget of advice I got from the Therapist from hell was: 'WHEN REACHING TO SHAKE A HAND, REACH STEP BACK AND TUEN YOUR BODY TO THE SIDE' This will let them know you don't want to be touched or hugged. I am wearing that trick out
I hope this helps others to come forth and share their story. I am attempting to be as transparent as possible and speak out My pastor said I was letting the devil run me from the church. They can say whatever they want but I don't have to be anywhere that makes me uncomfortable don't let people guilt trip you.
@scarletPear1945
I also used to go to a very huggy/touchy feely church and it's really hard isn't it? I'm sorry that your husband didn't give you the validation you needed, that must have been really painful for you.
It honestly shouldn't matter if we are the most beautiful woman on the planet wearing bikinis to church. No attire or level of attractiveness is permission to sexually harass someone, male or female!!! I think if someone is ill enough and looking for someone to abuse they will pick anything about them to justify in their minds why it is ok to do those things. The truth is, they are lies and us believing those lies only facilitates the belief that it is some how our fault so we are silenced in shame. It is never the abused person's fault.
We do act differently after abuse, it hurts and leaves wounds. I do think that it can set in motion cycles of abuse for the future as people are able to pick up on shame from our behaviours. It's really important to process the shame feelings and let them go not only for our healing but for our safety. Letting go of the bad stuff also makes room for the good loving relationships that we need. We need them to learn what right boundaries are, so we have new information and experiences to assess our trauma against and weed out the lies we were told. I think that probably the hardest thing about trauma, healing requires so much faith in the humanity that seemed to hurt us.
I'm not normally this blunt but your pastor's response made me very angry being a fellow believer and all. I think if I had been there I might have suggested that the devil should not have been in the church to be able to chase you out to begin with. It wasn't you and I'm glad you are not letting him guilt trip you into going back to somewhere unsafe for you. Very brave
@LifeIsMyCanvas
Thank you for the link and the wise words. I have never really been under professional care to ever help me to learn to deal with any of these issues in my life. Except for the Two therapists that almost got me killed for telling my abuser that I had told them what he did to me. It was my adopted dad that began the incest when I was 4 and continued till I was 18. My first child was a rape baby. Sexual assault has been a lifelong issue. Never being able to get help because of my father's position in the Pentagon. It always got swept under the rug. Then I was told by my dad if I told if I told on him again that he would kill me and dump my body in the woods and no one would find me. So I learned to be silent and adapt to the abuse. Whish has not been healthy for me. My father died a few years ago and now I can tell the story. Power and money make a big difference in how they treat victims of sexual violence.
I am just really beginning to feel safe enough to tell my story since the threat is dead. The last 8 years is the first time I have had no encounters with this. I had a Therapist here at cups I tried and she did not want me to engage in any of this stuff. But I thought it would help bring closure. So if You can't talk how do you heal or process to move on. She did say my normal thought process was messed up but If we are not allowed to talk and process this stuff how the hell do we change?
So I protect me with the fight or flight which is still not good. I do a lot of self-help stuff because I just don't trust Therapist anymore which is a bad thing because I think I need one. I found this like on youtube https://youtu.be/ne0PqZH-9Wc it is very interesting.
@LifeIsMyCanvas
I love this post from you, this response. It's so true, especially about what the hardest part of healing is. ESPECIALLY when you keep questioning whether or not you can trust a certain person, and you aren't sure whether you can or not because you aren't sure whether it's just your anxiety/triggers or whether they're actually doing something untrustworthy.
Hello everyone"
My boundaries still suck
I just try to stay out of harms way, since no one honors boundaries
@LifeIsMyCanvas
No, I do not feel comfortable telling people that.
I try to stay away or avoid physical touching.
I did, however, tell my Pastor I don't like to be hugged as it is a custom at my church
I try to avoid it like the Grand plaque, If it looks like a man is coming my way I run away the opposite direction
@LifeIsMyCanvas
No, I do not feel comfortable telling people that.
I try to stay away or avoid physical touching.
I did, however, tell my Pastor I don't like to be hugged as it is a custom at my church
I try to avoid it like the Grand plaque, If it looks like a man is coming my way I run away the opposite direction
@scarletPear1945
I'm sorry that you have experienced having your boundaries ignored. I am really glad that you have been able to say what is not ok for you. I do think that if someone refuses to accept your boundary then physical separation is a good tool in putting space between you.
However I am concerned that it my be a fear response? Defensiveness is often a flight or flight response which causes us to act from past trauma experience, which is exactly what we need our brains to do in immediate danger. Often after trauma we get false positives and it can interfer with our lives and make it hard to have healthy relationships. It also can make you feel really horrible in the moment and a while after and it makes life feel harder and I really would hate that for you after all you have been through.
I took a little time to reply because I wanted to look up resources for you, this video seems helpful at talking about how to override the fight or flight. It's not the exact same scenario but it explains the brain and gives some helpful tips: https://youtu.be/pHfniHf222E
Well my loves, it's time for me to sleep *yawns* it's late here.
I'm amazed at your bravery today, it takes a lot of courage to share
Hey everyone, I know I've been down recently, but thanks everyone who has replied to my posts or just liked a post, it's meant alot to me. <3 :)
Touch and boundries are a hard topic, but I'll give it my best try.
Do you feel ok telling people what touch is ok for you? And what isnt?
Short answer: No.
Long answer:
I am worried they will ask me why, or demand a reason. People have made fun of me before or made me the butt of jokes (as I've seen mentioned in here atleast once today). People think me having an issue with touch is 'funny'. I often find people cannot understand why something that does not affect themselves would affect others. Particularly teenagers when I was in school.
I learned growing up the less of a fuss I made about something the less it would be used against me. So if I don't create a fuss about touch or tell people what I do and don't like people are less likely to deliberatly used it as a tool against me.
I am worried my no will be ignored, and mentally I can't take much more of that. I'd rather just leave it and imagine they would have stopped if I'd asked them to.
Are there any physical boundary scenarios you struggle with?
I struggle with alot.
My family are very touchy-feely, lots of hugs etc. I struggle to say I don't like it there because my dad just makes a huge drama out of it like 'She doesn't like to be touched' or 'I forgot you don't like to be touched' (queue dramatic voice). Anyway, it makes me feel awkward and out of place, like I don't belong. I hate it. Its like I am super weird for not liking it. Its not like I am doing it for fun, it feels horrible, and can easily give me flashbacks.
I struggle with it with people hitting on me to. I am austitic, I often genuinly don't know if I am being hit on or not until someone spells it out. And often by then its way too late and they think I am interested in them, when all I was really trying to do was show I was engaged in the conversation (because I can struggle at that). I've had lots of people who think its okay to grab parts of my body, to be honest, my body rarely feels like its my own property. I try to protect it like it is, but the way other people act... apparently its not.
I also struggle with knowing how much I can physically touch someone else. I normally don't want to at all, it feels like an invasion, but my boyfriend is also autistic and he finds me too much sometimes. I don't mean to be, I am just bad at reading signals, and well, hes bad at sending them ahaha. It can be a total fail sometimes. My boyfriends the only person I feel comfortable touching me, and that permission can be retracted anytime, espeically if I am having a flashback.
Anyway I seem to be writing essays today, and they are kinda rambly. But thanks for reading if you did xD.
