7Cups, The Dangers of Safe-Space Culture and Censorship

@AMusicalSilence I'm kind of sleep-deprived while writing this, so excuse any grammatical errors or things that simply don't string together to make any sense. 🙃

"Ahh I think I see where youre coming from. Im really glad to hear that you have found something that does work for you and I hope youve managed to work your way out of those negative thoughts and feelings now. I am sorry to hear that youve lost people as a result of these guidelines, and I suppose this is one of the disadvantages of the rule about no off-site contact… Since everybody here is at different stages of recovery, that does unfortunately mean that we probably have to cater to those who are right at the beginning, those most sensitive and in the most vulnerable positions. If you think back to when you were in that really dark place, before youd discovered the ways you could use humour to cope, how do you think you would have felt if somebody had made jokes about suicide or depression? These are very sensitive topics and of course when were in such a dark place it really can be just the tiniest thing that tips us over the edge. Personally, I think its unlikely that the guidelines will be loosened simply because of the possible severe backlash the admin would face... Their aim is to provide a space that is safe for everyone and now understanding where youre coming from I am really sorry that as a result of losing people you dont feel so safe here; I can imagine that if there are a group of you then of course youd want to be altogether in a group chat and it must be frustrating that there isnt some kind of option to have a private group where you can share your jokes without risking upsetting or intimidating other users in the room Unfortunately the only thing I can suggest is trying to keep these sorts of conversations 1-1, or you could try making your own thread maybe titled ‘private thread tw and tagging the people you enjoy chatting with so you could then have a space for your jokes. Of course if you were to consider that it would probably be worth messaging one of the admin first and finding out if that would be a safe option for you."

Despite what i may have made it sound like, those people i befriended are doing just fine offsite (i mean, they're really god damn irked that their accounts have been banned), because, believe me no one respects that rule, no one. that also goes for the admins themselves, but i probably shouldn't fling out all the dirty laundry of old-school cups in a public forum post lest i want to be chased away with lit torches and pitchforks, lol, anyway, i've always had a way of coping with my mental disorders through comedy/jokes, there wasn't really a "before i discovered" it was always there, since my parents were both into stand-up comedy and would usually rent stand-up specials on VHS tapes when i was little, it's what i grew up on, basically what i'm saying is, when i got my first computer of my very own and entered the magical world of the internet, i was more amazed than appalled when people said ridiculously offensive things, and that's how i've always treated it, if there was things that hurt me, it would be things that pretty much hurts any living human being despite how thick their skin is, like having rumors started, or being betrayed, things that harm you on a deep psychological level, maybe i am simply just different from everyone else, but words simply do not harm me, also the admins facing backlash from loosing up on the guidelines? i mean, as far as i know, the guidelines is one of the main things that cause harm to people here, it is the number one threat, if anything they wold be celebrated for actually listening to real feedback on the website for once, you know, unlike things that do not matter, like adding animal icons next to our names (even though it's optional, but still, don't come and tell me this doesn't start looking like a care center for children at times)

Also making a private thread to respond in is kind of pointless considering we're talking about instant messaging AKA group chats, can you imagine the chaos of having about 6400 comments in a thread by the end of the day? also, this isn't really just "jokes", it is just people's personalities, it's their behavior, who they are, you find them funny because they are relateable, because of the things they've gone through, probably should have included that in my original response, but i hope you see what i mean.

"This is true of course, not everybody has to be treated in this way, but there are some people who do and we cant always know for sure who those individuals are before really getting to know them. Taking people with DID, or anybody who experiences age regression for whatever reason, often they will need that extra TLC and gentle approach - one comment that doesn't sit well with somebody could so easily put them off finding any more support here. I can totally understand why you would think this would make people weaker, but sometimes when traumatic memories resurface then the regression and having that almost ‘motherly support is a part of the recovery process… Id never actually admitted because Ive always felt really weird and embarrassed about it, but that was a part of the process for me in the first 4 months, and it seemed to be an important stage because the stuff happened when I was a small child. As a result, I dont think it made me weaker at all - having been exposed to things I shouldnt have at that age, it seemed that everywhere I turned there were constant reminders, but I knew that around here the chances of seeing something which would cause me distress were very slim, so this became my world for several months, gradually helping me to work through things and get back to where I needed to be - so I went from essentially spending a year in bed hiding away to now being back in education studying psychology and finally overcame the anxiety holding me back from seeking therapy for what happened. I know it probably sounds overly dramatic, but I honestly believe that if this place hadnt been available to me in the sensitive way that it was, I would either be in a hospital by now or wouldnt be here at all. Sorry Ive rambled on a lot about myself, but of course we can only really give our own experiences as examples huh! I am extremely surprised that somebody got muted for talking about menstruation though (well - I suppose it depends on the context or how explicit it was...), I dont generally use the group chats so I dont know what its like these days, but for a long time there does seem to have been some talk about some abuse of power which is a real shame, but also has nothing to do with the guidelines and is down to the individual."

You have my condolences for what happened to you, i'm truly sorry, you shouldn't have been through all that drama, (congratulations on getting back into studying though! 👍) that being said, instead of seeing the things that harms us as threats, we should see them as opportunities to grow stronger, again, as challenges to be overcome, for some it wont be easy, but as long as you keep trying, you will get there, the amount of mud i've been trudging through in life should have made me sink and drown at this point (i'm not going to tell my entire life story in public as i consider it very personal), but you've got to be a struggler, someone that keeps walking through - for a lack of a better word, whatever shït comes your way and tries keeping you down, maybe this website is enough for some people to claim back their sanity, but i believe that unless you face the demons that keep you a prisoner by yourself, you'll never be free, it is perhaps the most terrifying thing you'll do in your life, but you don't need this website to do so, this website is younger than the centuries of people who have prevailed their disorders and disabilities, working on self-reliance is a very benefitial thing, although getting help from friends and family will most certainly boost your confidence.

And yes, unfortunately certain mods, individuals if you like, have been missusing their power but without punishment from the mentors and admins, i do NOT believe it is down to guidelines, it is simply a gross overuse of the power certain mods have been given.

"I guess well have to agree to disagree there, I would often see it as simply being respectful but do love a bit of banter once I can see the other persons position on it. Its great that you have this friend who youre able to have so much fun with, and yes a lot of people do also joke about parts of their identity which can definitely ease any tension, though can also be one of those things which is tough to know the boundaries with so I would think its often best to let people lead the way initially with humour which might be offensive to them. It is easy to assume that people are fine with comments or jokes, but I know that in the past Ive laughed along with things which have made me incredibly uncomfortable and totally knocked my confidence because they have been things which affect me and which Id never had the courage to open up to anyone about, in fear that they held the same views. Of course I dont know your family, but it is one of those things to keep in mind - we never know a person's full story. The situation with the girl who was a very close friend of mine was not a case of just throwing away a friendship over a few comments; it was much more cumulative and honestly it is really sad to see that she works though friends so quickly - yes she still occasionally meets up with us and were all civil and awkwardly pretend everythings fine, but although she is very ignorant and disrespectful with many topics, I do still care about her and wish things could be fixed because I know that shes not in the best place.

Yes, internalised oppression is something a lot of people face, often without even realising it. I am again somewhat confused that youre now saying that you dont care about people being triggered, about their feelings and so on - so where does the i personally think we've ought to step outside ourselves, to become selfless and caring, honest, empathetic, sympathetic, understanding, intelligent and down to earth. come in?"

You may have already discovered through our previous encounters that i'm a tad bit of a risk taker, i say things that are very sarcastic, sometimes the sarcasm is lost on people, luckily i've found it's very common for people to pick up on the sarcasm rather than not, instead we simply just don't agree with each other and there's a lot of tension.at times, but that's okay and is expected, glad you're still friends with that girl though, that statement i made was more generally speaking and not about the situation with the girl, hopefully her situation brightens up and she can lead a better life, i don't know the gravity of whatever comments she has made, so i can only hope for her improvement.

As for my comment about becoming "selfless and caring, honest, empathetic, sympathetic, understanding, intelligent and down to earth." i think that applies that people that actually want to be helped and want to help, when you mentioned internalised oppression i was referring to SocJus warriors that are professional, and dishonest manipulators and most importantly infiltrators in communities where people do actually suffer, they become very good at being "victims" and distorts/askews reality to fit their point of view, this in turn harms the people that wants real help, want to improve their situation, and doesn't want society changed for a small minority's sake to disadvantage the rest of the population, maybe for some it is difficult to see the difference between the two, but the difference is glaringly obvious once you see it.

Not sure how active you are on YouTube, but i suggest following people there instead of traditional media (as either side of the political spectrum are filled to the brim with liars), and you might see how life is for your average person when they're accused of "internalised oppression".

"Ahh ok, my mistake - generally when people say they go through issues constantly with something related to themself, I interpret that as meaning negative personal struggles. Admittedly I started writing my response to you a few days back so I dont know if I can remember the papers I was referring to, but Ill drop some sources at the end of this post if I can find them. Ive also just come across this website which you might like, it looks pretty interesting

I do think its important to recognise however that ‘roasting is very different from making ignorant jokes about a personal/misunderstood issue which a person may have heard hundreds of times before. I totally agree that watching roasts can be great, but bear in mind that these are generally situations where people have signed up for it. As youve said, everyones sense of humour is different and whilst there is no harm in making adaptive jokes to somebody who has no interest in them, there can be significant damage done when maladaptive jokes are made at an individual or audience who you havent taken the time to figure out where they stand on this and may be more sensitive - often when people are more interested in maladaptive humour they begin with self-deprecating humour which can help to gauge where others stand. Generally people whove experienced trauma for example, will know what they like or dislike - they dont again have to be exposed to tasteless r**e ‘jokes to know that they cant cope with that. Similarly, trans people dont need to have jokes made about identifying as objects or animals in order to know that thats simple ignorance and lack of understanding to the struggles that come with gender incongruence. My sister's autistic and doesn't understand any kinds of jokes at all, so she'll get very distressed if something is said sarcastically or in a teasing way because she doesn't realise that we don't mean it even if to everybody else it seems blatantly obvious. Yes I agree that being exposed to things is a part of growing, however the entire internet is here to expose us to all kinds of things and just as it may not be your responsibility to handle people's feelings, its not your responsibility to expose them to potentially upsetting things either - there is an entire world out there for that!

Were all free to express whatever we like elsewhere - but there is an appropriate time and place."

First of all, clicked on the website, and perhaps it's ignorant of me to just close it after reading the opening paragraph, but there is no guidebook to humor, or how we should use it, it should come naturally, i realize you didn't write this article so you're not at fault, but still, haha.

Secondly, i agree, but then there's a paradox for me, since i both believe there is such a thing as maladaptive jokes, and then there aren't, it comes down to knowing your environment, and i usually start a conversation by trying to be funny, if it fails, so be it, i just go into a neutral position and talk normally, also if offense is caused, i refuse to apologise because i mean what i say, if i didn't mean anything by it, why say it in the first place? you can't know what people have been through, they don't have to be exposed to it, but they do, and they will, if not here, somewhere else, maybe that increases the argument that this "should be a safe space", but i disagree, if people constantly spoke to me in a careful tone, as if i am a child, i would be properly annoyed, maybe that is even why therapy didn't work for me, i am a realist, not an idealist, but now i'm just derailing a bit.

Hmm, it might not be my responsibility to expose people to things they might find upsetting, but that's not really going to change, it's just how i run my life, and i'm unnable to change it because it is what i find most comfortable - being myself.
and as the world will expose you to things that are way worse (in my opinion) i don't see the issue, let me make this clear, i don't go out to INTENTIONALLY hurt people, to quote Ricky Gervais "Offense is taken, not given."

I don't mind sharing a tiny bit about myself because this is already public knowledge in the circles i frequent anyway, but i'm like your sister, part of the autism spectrum, i have Asperger, which means that i am highly functioning, as the state suggests, i am for the most part just like any other person, i just struggle a huge amount with socializing, and things related to communication, although this can also be different when it goes from person-to-person, so my diagnosis is probably very much different than someone else with asperger, they will more than likely still struggle with a lot of the same things, but there might be added complications, i personally tell people i'm lucky as i got my diagnosis as an adult, and not as a child, some might thing that is horrifying, not knowing what is wrong with you for all those years, but that simply meant i was treated just like everyone else, and i manage to fit into society much easier as a result, this has also resulted in my strong critique of raising children to BE children, instead of raising children to BE adults, as that is the prefered method of treating human beings in the culture we currently find ourselves inhabiting, anyhow, good luck to your sister, i'm probably very different to her, but i know the difficulties the autism spectrum comes with.

"To be honest Im not sure what youre trying to get at with these absurd and mostly extremist examples since this isn't about external politics, and certainly not to do with violence, but anyway. I would say good for them for reporting it - what comes out of other peoples mouths is not their responsibility, and the consequences they face as a result isnt the reporters fault either. We have to take responsibility for our own actions and a part of that is knowing the guidelines, whether thats here, in university, in a job… Just about everywhere will have them. Bullying and violence is extremely weak - theres nothing more I have to say about that. It takes a hell of a lot of courage to come forward about abuse, and respecting peoples pronouns really isnt that difficult - simply making the effort is massively appreciated. Im not sure why youve linked the latter comments with violence, obviously theyre very independent things."

To be fair i've been exposed to too much drama recently, maybe i'm a tad bit paranoid about the current state of the world, but i think rightfully so, if you haven't been following what's being going on the last few years it might be hard to understand, perhaps? i do however, as suggested in my previous responses in this post believe this is most certainly linked to SocJus.

Really though? you think it's okay for people to lose their jobs over inoffensive jokes? this isn't always cases of something being said at a workplace by the way, i'm talking about something someone tweeted out in their private life, what happens when everything becomes offensive to everyone? can i report someone FOR reporting someone because it makes me uncomfortable? will then then two people lose their job? it might seem extreme to you, but this is the thin line we're actually stepping on, no, really.

As for pronouns, well, i simply don't think any government, or entity should be able to tell me how to speak, if i choose to define people as she, he, it, those three, then that should be fine, as i personally believe it doesn't go beyond those three, it's anti-science, unlike what gender professors may suggest during a gender studies class, we are NOT born as blank slates whom society chooses the gender pronoun for, it is not a social construct and they undermine the complexity of the human brain and how it evolved. male and female brains are different, it is a scientific fact, you can be a man, a woman, or a transgender man, or a transgender woman, and that is it, i have no idea how many people are going to flood me with hatemail for pointing out that as a fact, and that is why i refuse to use specialized gender pronouns like "zie" or "ze" or "xe" and "xem" for instance.

"Dont get me wrong, Im not saying that you have to stop using the language or making the jokes that you do - I mean I can't tell you to stop anywhere, obviously its all up do you, but this is mainly focussing on the use of this language/comments on 7cups. Im not sure we ever decide to give words power, but rather that seems to be the whole purpose of language - to get across points, to make an impact, to get a job done… On one hand I really do see where youre coming from and I would love to not care about a tonne of things that people say, but I do not believe its healthy to try desensitising yourself or conditioning yourself in such a way - I say that having spent a long time addicted to that app I mentioned. Personally I hate it, I find it an awfully toxic place but I would use that in an attempt to get used to the awful things people say and to stop caring. Quite the opposite happened; rather than stopping caring if it taught me anything, it was that (a) exposing yourself to such negativity and blatant ignorance takes a toll on both mental and physical health, and just like other forms of self harm this exposure does indeed become addictive; and (b) when its something that is so deeply personal, that youve had to fight tirelessly through and people are continuously making uneducated comments or jokes about it, you dont get used to it - you get fed up, stand up for yourself and educate them.

When it comes to swearing in many cases I do agree, it can be really beneficial for letting off steam or coping with pain - personally I have no problem with it (unless its being used to harass somebody) however I am aware that although these days it may seem ridiculous, a lot of parents are still protective of the language their children are exposed to and so (a) this might be one reason excessive swearing isnt allowed here; and (b) this may well also be why some adults are more sensitive to the language people use. It is a difficult one, and I think some swearing is allowed in the forums so long as its not excessive, but I guess with the chats its easier to just have words automatically censored than try to set up something that somehow measures excessive-ness, context and so on!"

Hey, thanks for posting the sources you read! that's actually greatly appreciated, in most debate settings most people would just tuck their tail between their legs and back away or go "look it up yourself!", so this is respectable, and you're right, i'm going straight back to using the same language, and to go about my life the same way i always has, as you said, you can't stop me, and nor do i want to stop you from living your life, using language the way you want to use it, as for how you used that App, that does sound rather tough, now this might sound like an insult to you, i don't really know how to describe it any other way, but you sound like a 'normie', see i'm used to people being toxic, posting memes, joking about serious things, that's how i grew up on the internet, but from the sound of it, you didn't, so it is strange to you how people could be so toxic, the worst thing you could possibly do is try to educate people in that state of mind, as it isn't like they don't understand that what they're doing is wrong, they know it's wrong, it's why they do it and doesn't make a big deal out of it, again i don't know the gravity of what they are saying, but knowing the internet, and this place pretty much, i do have an idea.

Anyways i hope that was structurally cohesive enough to understand, i'm gonna go sleep now, so i'll repond to your reply later if you'll make one, if not, thanks for the effort put into your post. 👌