your dbt group experience?
What has your experience with dbt been like?
background about me: autistic and trying to recover from SH and anorexia along with depression. i never lash out. i tend to act inward and not reach out for help until i am in crisis. i have difficulty relating to others. i have trauma from being in not so good mental health programs (i've been to every level of care over this past decade).
background about getting into dbt: i was s~*c*dal and SHing to an extent that my cbt therapist forced me into dbt therapy because dbt is the only option to help me with SH apparently. he will not take me back until i complete a round of dbt therapy.
my experience with dbt: the individual therapy was great at first. my therapist was insightful and validating and i liked using the chain and links model for figuring out why i did behaviors. but then, since i SH every week, the sessions turned into only analyzing the events around my SH and he offered me no real strategies or advice on how to change that behavior or go deeper into why i was not functioning well in my current life.
DBT GROUP: i cannot believe i am paying money for this. virtual, everyone is tired and disengaged. the presenter doesn't even TRY to make things engaging- there's no real effort on her part to actually get us to learn and as a teacher myself it drives me crazy. the things she wants us to learn are not applicable and/or useful in the slightest. interactions are all artifical and painfully awkward from everyone in the group and i cannot relate to anyone. it is so boring that the 2 hours have been a breeding ground for intense s~*c*dal thoughts and SH urges. i've even SHed DURING group. when i asked to at least be put in an in-person group, they said nothing was avaliable. when i said i need a safe environment to do the video call from, they refused to let me come and use a room in their office space, despite knowing about the SH incident. when told them that dbt group was painful for me, they said i should practice reality acceptance. and when i asked if i could please just do individual dbt and not group, my therapist dodged the question and said we would talk more in individual next week.
thoughts on dbt: it was created for people with bpd and people who engage in self destructive behaviors. it was made for people with undercontrol issues: lashing out, impulsivity, no thinking or restraint. it is meant to help you take a step back and be mindful instead of engaging in behaviors or letting emotions control you. it is a toolbox and a bandaid. the problem is, other than the SH, I do not fit with the dbt patient profile at all. the dbt book keeps assuming that i am the agressor, that i am an angry person, that i am not seeing reality correctly, that i am the problem. this is not what a person who already blames themselves for everything needs. dbt group doesn't work because even if there might be helpful things scattered around the book, the group does not skip around so i am forced to sit and waste 2 hours on non-applicable nonsense. the worst part of it is that the group leader has files on everyone and she has even said when certain chapters would not be relevant for anyone in the group but then she went ahead and taught it anyways without any tweaking??? i don't normally get angry but the fact that she is doing this to me and the others does make me angry. must be the autistic sense of justice coming out lol. dbt treats the book like a bible and it is bizarre. well, it is just the carcass of buddhism with all the spirituality gutted from it so it can be all trussed up for western audiences.
to summarize: dbt has been ineffective at best and dangerous at worst. i've stuck with it for 3 months and i'm not planning on continuing.
What has your experience been?
@determinedSea4370
I haven't done DBT, but I relate to you a lot. I'm also autistic with a strong sense of justice, who waits until crisis before asking for help. I'm inwardly angry (or least I was). It's very rare I'd act out. I considered myself the problem. I hated myself.
I have been looking into therapy *after* I recovered from depression 2 months ago. DBT does not sound like it is for me, at least in the form you're experiencing. Sounds so hollow, does not actually consider the person and follows strict rules. No freedom for honest expression and an actual back-and-forth.
Hmm... I feel you need someone, something, that you can be open and honest with that won't judge you and make you feel even more problematic. I'm not sure I have much practical advice beyond keep looking into different therapists.
Your situation really challenges me to think of potential solutions. You could try posting more here, I know I'd be more than happy to be a listening ear. There are a lot of kind people here. We've been through similar things and I have a lot of empathy for you.
The technique that helped me most in my recovery was reflection. Sometimes you need a partner for that. If both parties are honest, it's highly effective. It's just identifying feelings and examining their causes. I'm not promising anything though, it's a nuanced process.
In the meantime, try to treat yourself like you would a kind child. I know that may be hard.
Stay strong friend. You've demonstrated great strength by stepping forward. Hopefully this is the first step in recovery. I just wish I had more practical advice! Sorry about that.
Boosting for visibility. More people need to weigh in on this.
@cyanessence
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I don't think DBT is inherently bad per se- it is less of a therapy model and more of a toolbox of coping skills. In individual DBT, a therapist can help steer you toward chapters within the manual that could be helpful or to modify certain things- I think it just falls apart in group therapy. 'No freedom of honest expression'- thank you for wording it like that because it just dawned on me how much DBT encourages a weird suppression of self and expression and maybe that's another thing that is turning me off. I will give this individual DBT therapist one last try and if he doesn't agree to letting me out of this current group, I will leave the whole program and start from scratch again. Thank you. I do have a bad habit of sinking into despair by assuming that no one would empathize with me...because so far these therapists haven't been listening to me lol. I've had terrible luck with group therapy so far- the first group influenced me to start SHing, the second group 'graduated' me early because i was too depressed and volatile and they didn't want to deal with me any longer, i pulled myself out of the third group because i couldn't stop myself from being depressive and nasty, and now this fourth group is driving me to SH but they are telling me that i'm the problem and i need to stay and try harder. Sorry for that vent lol. Thank you again.
@determinedSea4370
Happy we could just talk about it. I'm hesitant to give any actual advice because I do not know what you want and need. But you are thinking, and like breathing it's how we stay alive.
Would love to hear from others!
@determinedSea4370 I relate strongly to this-I'm also autistic, and am struggling with SH, su*c*dal urges, depression, bulimia, anxiety and ADHD. I am in an IOP right now, and the primary component is group DBT. I agree with your frustration-It is incredibly unengaging, and leads my mind to wander-often to places similar to where you went. Since it is in person, I have started scratching/punching myself in group when the SH urges get to be too much. Very few of the skills seem to relate to me, and even if they do, I am in no place to utilize them right now. I find it so frustrating I am forced to sit there and absorb this information more focused on impulses-aside from the SH, I don't fit this, and even that is less impulsive than you might think. I appreciate you opening up this space, as so often I will hear people raving about DBT, and it is nice to know others are having similar issues with it.
@DarkAsNight33
I'm glad I'm not the only one. Thank you for sharing. My CBT therapist told me that DBT is 100 percent guaranteed to help people like me and my best friend told me the same thing and I've been all over the internet just reading the same raving about DBT to the point that I just felt like there must be something wrong with me.
I don't understand why DBT group is made to be so painfully long, dry, and unengaging, especially when the usual patient profile for DBT is someone who struggles with SH and s~*c*dal thoughts, struggles to stay present, and struggles to control impulses and feelings. 2 hours of boredom for that kind of person is the worst kind of torture of dissociation and floods of impulses, thoughts, and turbulent emotions or if the dissociation hits hard, just pure numbness. Someone who is being tortured like this isn't primed to learn anything.
I've been told that it is my fault for reacting this way and that I should try harder, but if I'm paying them so much money, they should try harder to actually try to help ALL of their UNIQUE patients rather than robotically going through a manual and following the same formula for group every single time.
The group leader should take into account the files of the patients and skip to the most relevant parts of the manual. And if they are going to teach, they should be prepared to ACTUALLY TEACH. I don't mean just reading off a manual for hours and awkwardly going around the room and forcing people to share one by one. I want games, activities, station work, puzzles, partner work, connections to current culture, a variety of ways of conveying information (text/images/videos/audio/touch/movement) and a variety of ways of responding other than speaking (polls/hands up/writing/drawing/whiteboards). Like if you are a therapist with no training in actual teaching, then don't freaking try to teach. Sorry, I've been stuck on brainstorming how they could improve this for weeks now. I just ended up ranting.
It's not like DBT is all useless. I actually took it upon myself to go through the whole manual last night and fill out the parts that are the most relevant to me. If you have access to a DBT manual, I would suggest doing this as well.
Thank you for replying.
@determinedSea4370
It's touching that in all your struggles, you're actively thinking of how to improve the experience. I hope your ideas reach the light of day because I think there is great value in them.
I for one see no harm in me taking a look into this DBT. It might give me enough information to know whether it is actually for me or not. I'm pretty well, but I need a therapist to bounce ideas. I just can't wait for that therapy, I need to start taking care of myself immediately. So thank you for your insight, in seeking help you have guided a lost soul towards hope.
@determinedSea4370 Thanks, it's so good to be able to connect with someone who gets it! If I try to say anything to anyone else, all I hear is how good it is, or how I need to try harder, or how I must be doing something wrong, like it's impossible that the same cookie-cutter method may not work for everyone! That is a good suggestion, though-I'll have to see if I can get a copy of the manual, as they don't even let us take them. And your ideas are so good, I wish those could be implemented! If you ever have the opportunity with someone who will listen, speak up-your ideas can do great things, especially for people like me who are too afraid of rocking the boat. Keep on pushing, and I hope your experience improves. Thank you for giving voice to something that has been bothering me so much!
I have autism too, and DBT was horrible for me as well. I completely agree with so many things you said. I didn’t have SH but a manic episode that got me hospitalized, but the whole time I was in DBT probably anxiety and lack of good regular expressive communication and social skills were my biggest problems. I had a constant “buzz” of anxiety in my head, and the group or individual therapy did not help this. I constantly felt like I was doing all of the DBT exercises wrong. Also the diary card? Holy cow that was stress upon stress for me just to fill out twice a day every day for over a year. I hated chaining - the whole time. I thought it was really wasting my precious individual therapy time. I had actual problems in my life that could have been helped had I not been in DBT that whole time. I was so eager to get a different therapist and talk about my daily and weekly life and get some actual solutions.
I found DBT very effective, but I was taught how to practice it from a clinician. I learned how to administer DBT, but I chose to practice it on myself. This in combination with other things I was working on. I can 100% relate to your experience. I tried a support group twice... and I felt worse because all the members did was cry and complain about their issues AND there wasn't real support. It made me disgusted with the counselors. They were so unhelpful and had no idea what to do. This was a few years ago. I've thought about leading my own support group because I know I could do it better and actually provide life-changing support.
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