Cliques in Group Support Rooms.
Issue.
I speak for all the Group Support mods when I say that we're entirely in support of friendship groups in the group chat rooms. We highly encourage friendships between members on 7cups and the group chat rooms are a natural place to talk with friends.
However, it's a little different when it becomes a clique. A clique is defined as: "a small close-knit group of people who do not readily allow others to join them.
It can be very upsetting for new members or guests to be excluded from the discussion because they are not part of the clique.
How can it feel to be left out?
Being left out can be extremely upsetting. imagine when you was a child, and how you felt when your friend didn't let you play with them, it's like that - but worse, as you are in a group of adults. You would expect to be more accepted there.
How does it make us feel?
In turn, it can be very discouraging to listeners when they try to support people and they can't, because the member/guest has been upset by the support room, it can also cause conflict, because as I've seen multiple times - clique's attack new members trying to join. Mods are then forced into the room.
Disrespect of Group Support mods.
Usually, when we come into the support room to end conflict we are attacked. I have seen multiple clique's attack moderators for trying to involve members.
"We don't like them!"
"He's an attention seeker!"
"She shouldn't be here!"
"You just like to abuse your power".
It shouldn't happen, but it does. That brings me onto that note; we do not like to abuse moderator permissions. Any mods who abuse their powers get them removed.
How do you accept them?
There are many ways to accept a new member.
The main way to accept them is to INVOLVE them.
Over all; PLEASE try accepting people into your friendship groups.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
It's been my experience that listeners and mods have been the ones to do this moreso than members/guests. It's especially frustrating to see a mod engage in this, as they have power within the room.
@AffyAvo I agree, maybe we should put more systems in place? 
@AffyAvo
Ths is really upsetting to hear, as a listener I can assure you I will keep a look out for these things both on the listener and member side. These group chats are meant to lift everyones spirits and create support groups.
As a listener though, I would hope that we all have the same intentions of making everyone feel comfortable with sharing their thoughts on this site. If you feel your comments are being ignored, do consider the possibility of too many messages happening. I often find I accidentally skipped someone's comment just because of how many people are in the chat room. Of course, this is not to deny your claim, I do believe you and hope we can fix the issue.
@Listener90
It's not the majority, but the few can make a big impact.
@AffyAvo
I understand
I'm glad this issue is being addressed. It's been a concern of mine and I have seen the immediate effects of being left out/ignored when one reaches out. It's heartbreaking to witness and even more heartbreaking to know this happens continuously throughout the day. Having said this, I'd like to point out a side to this that I feel was unmentioned.
I think this should be a group effort among all of us and the members of the chat rooms should not be scolded for not involving everyone. We are on member accounts, and are fighting our own demons (and fighting the demons of others when we are able to). Our shoulders should not be the only ones holding the responsibility of ensuring everyone feels included and involved. There are a lot of us who actively try to include everyone but I speak from personal experience that on days I can barely get out of bed, I cannot be someone else's lifeline and I cannot always even bring myself to offer a kind response because I am too preoccupied crucifying myself. We are not there to moderate the chat room. We are there to receive support and give support when we can. I thing group support moderators should be actively doing this in each chat room more often than they are currently, instead of being "forced into the room" whenever there is an altercation. The fact that there is even any "forcing" going on, forcing a Group Support moderator into a Group Support chat room, alarms me. There needs to be more leading by example and less do as I say, and not as I do. (Disclaimer: There are amazing Group Support Moderators who actively participate in conversations and have my upmost respect. I am not attempting to offend the moderators as a whole nor am I trying to offend. I just feel this burden is a burden to be shared by all.)
Disrespect of any kind is unacceptable and it saddens me to see moderators be abused simply for the tag they wear. But that malice originated somewhere. If there is any "disrespect" going on, perhaps that means some voices are feeling unheard and there is a problem that needs to be addressed, still.
It's obvious this is a problem that calls for more participating and effort from ALL parties involved and not something that should fall solely on members. Things need to change. From all sides.
@ValentineLove Unfortunately; most moderators are involved in numerous other projects on the site and are "Emergency Moderators", who typically go into the chatrooms when a moderator is requested or they are asked to go into the room.
@cuddlyWords72 I am aware. :)
I suppose I figured that the reason each moderator had different tags, and different specialties, is that they specialize in those things. Perhaps moderators are being spread too thin and/or are allowed to specialize in far too many areas to sufficiently handle, and this is an issue that needs to be addressed. We are not responsible for this. This is more of a flaw in the system/number of available moderators in relation to the sheer size of the website and not an indication of something lacking on the member side. (Not that you insinuated this, just something I wanted to make clear.)
It is a significant issue, all points you brought up are significant issues, there is no disagreeing with this. But things need to change from all sides. I feel members will see this topic and think they are being made responsible for an issue that should be held by all shoulders, not just theirs. Because that is the response I'm actively seeing.
The newcomers are the victims with this. Let's work together to fix that, rather than saying because of the actions of Group A, Group B are this and this. We're already separated enough as it is. We're a support website. Why aren't we supporting each other?
@ValentineLove I agree that we should be supporting each other more, and unfortunately - there is currently a lack of mods, we currently have around 470 (judging from the Group Support mod badges given).
@ValentineLove
Well said. I have not been treated badly in any form or fashion and I have found the people in group chats to be very friendly and welcoming. With that said, if someone is not speaking to me, I probably wouldn't realize it because this is my first time ever doing group chats and there are a lot of things going on at one time. It does take getting used to and I sincerely hope that I have not ignored anyone and if I did, it was probably because I did not realize that they were talking to me. I actually had to ask one or twice, are you talking to me Jessica? I was not used to people shortening my name MsJessica55. It's a new experience and I am learning.
I think respect is the most important thing in group chat, no matter if you agree or disagree with what is being said, each person has the right to express themselves respectfully and feel that they have been heard and understood. Some people may be having a really bad time that day and not feel they have support to give that day. That needs to be understood and respected too.
I have met some wonderful people on this site since I have joined in September of last year and I really think this site is revolutionary in meeting the needs of so many people that need support at times when other options are unavailable. I appreciate each and every one of you for all the hard work you do and for all the members that give us the opportunity to be of service. :-)
I don't see any cliques, which doesn't mean there aren't any, just that I don't notice them.
What I do think I see is that some regulars in the chatroom share a history together, know eachother and share common tastes. All these things can cause for certain people to chat with eachother about things that other people don't like or can't chat about: You can't chat with a newcomer about stuff that happened a year ago on 7 Cups, about other members, about your personal life without explaining the details already explained. If you don't share the taste of topics that have brought people together in the chatrooms (pizza, mods, trolls, cats, relationships for example) then that makes it difficult too for newcomers
Wether they are right or wrong, a lot of people don't like the mods, so it's natural they try to attack them, you don't need cliques for that.
Trying to engage newcomers I think is a good idea, maybe you could share some tips?
@UnholyFeast Some things that can be done:
- Avoid the use of labels that either puts people in or outside a group. Especially if one is a listener or a mod.
- Allow people to participate. Mods should not tell members they can't engage in discussions.
- Don't make up little pet names of groups based on your own user name, as them belonging to you.
- If some type of odd event is going on, explain it especially if it's not in the calendar and someone asks. If they are ignored about the explanation don't tell them their efforts aren't to be included when they try to sort it out for themselves.
- I think tag lists where a mod determines who is in and who is out is also questionable.
Thank you so much for addressing this issue! Sadly, I see this quite often in the chatrooms, and I've come across members or guests who feel like they are being ostracized or ignored. If they want to be heard out, I feel like a 1 on 1 is more suitable for them. However, I understand that not everyone wishes to ignore certain individuals especially if a chatroom has many participants. Let's do our best to make everyone feel welcome!
Thank you for saying what we are all thinking!! :)
@mscoxie
I apologize in advance for being so blunt.
If this is truly what you all believe,congratulations,you've successfully terrified me.
Forgive me for being so forward,but I believe the community's negative reaction towards mods,is because a number of them are blackening the name of all mods,and escaping any form of retribution.
The reason why the members may attack some mods is likely because of that,not because the mods are attempting to involve members in groups.
In all honesty,I've never actually seen a mod attempt to do that.
However,I've seen some mods snipe in order to avoid accountability,incite disagreements and enflame pre-existing ones,and misuse warnings to enforce their own views.
There's a very colossal assumption hidden amidst cuddly's words,namely,the assumption that these mods are punished,let alone in a timely manner.
I've seen far too many get off completely scott-free,while members are punished severely for the slightest rule-breaking.
Forgive me for being so blunt,but when someone sees such skewed justice,it is inevitable that dissatisfaction,and eventually,dissent will arise.
Now don't get me wrong,I'm not calling all mods bad
I'm calling some mods bad.
In the end,a mod's role is that of a moderator
Not a swat team,not an army.
Their role is not,and has never been,to immediately resort to force.
It is to resolve disputes.
The simplest,and most reasonable course of action is to bring these people to justice.Once this is solved,the issue of "disrespect" towards moderators will resolve itself.
Anything else is mere band-aids on a cancer patient.
Now,as for the matter of cliques,I've yet to notice many that fulfill all the criteria,specifically,the one about not readily allowing others to join them.
If such a thing indeed does form,then by all means,it must be disrupted.
However it is of utmost importance to take extreme precaution in such actions,or this current scenario will merely be brought back to haunt you.
I only use one room (relationship) and can honestly say I've not seen a clique, or anybody being willfully ignored.
I've seen people, when it's busy, get upset that nobody responds straight away, but that's pretty unavoidable. also, as has been said, sometimes familiar people with similar problems come into chat, and a common interest is forged, which means that people will be interested in how things are going for eachother.
@Bismuth
Can I ask why you felt the need to tag me in your response? I'm not offended by your bluntness at all but confused as to why it seems as if you are under the impression that I wrote the post of something.....I just agree that cliques are unwelcoming to new members and guests and that all mods get grouped together as "bad mods". :)
@mscoxie
I was surprised that a senior moderator as yourself would reply to the original post and completely ignore all other counterarguments. Perhaps it wasn't your intention, but it came across as though you support the entirety of the original post even though it has been said it is offending a lot of members.
Hey everyone,
The issue being discussed is a real one. But some nuances are overlooked. I think the problem is that new members, or guests, are ignored or left out in ongoing group chat. I wouldn't say that there are mean-spirited cliques actively pushing new people away. But there are the 'regulars' that know each other, and talk among themselves. New people are often overlooked, maybe even ignored. This needs to be addressed.
The question is how do we go about doing that. I think mods, listeners, and members all have their part to do.
Yes, members should try to involve everyone. But, as said before, most members are here for support themselves, of course we try help others when we can, but we shouldn't be responsible for everyone's well-being. We simply aren't able to do that.
I think the listeners and mods in a chat room should pay extra attention to this problem, because members alone can't fix this. They should act as soon as they see someone is being overlooked, before things get messy.
Then there is this second issue about attacking or disrespecting mods. I think this is very unfortunate. We have experienced some behavior by mods that left some people feeling that mods are against us, not with us. Resulting in mistrust and wariness towards moderators. We keep having lurking mods in our chat generously handing out warnings for very minor things, without saying a word in chat. Of course this doesn't excuse any disrespect or nastiness towards moderators in general. Most of them are absolutely amazing and are very kind people.
Simon 🐙
@Simon93 When I am spending time in chat rooms I try *extremely hard* to write out a quick hello when I read a new person has entered the room. However, sometimes the convo is flowing so fast I cannot react to every single person in a timely manner. And on occasion, I am already tightly focused on trying to assist a poster in some form of emotional upset. I am neither a Listener nor Moderator, but I take it on to be as helpful and soothing as I can, when I can, for others as I would hope they might do for me.
I feel it would be helpful if more Members would add a greeting towards newbies in their repertoire, as it seems very inviting/ welcoming to someone bucking up the courage to enter new territory, or engage in dialogue with others they have not yet had the pleasure to meet. And 1 person can't do it alone-- we're a community, right?
I remember how wary I was the first few times I explored group chat, and how relieved I felt when 1 or 2 posters took a second to say hi. I no longer was so stressed about reaching out, or concerned about rejection. Even if someone enters the room in a jarring fashion, begging for help and somehow interrupting what the flow of the convo might be, it's worth a quick acknowledgement to say something such as "Hello, Ms. X, I am so sorry you are feeling awful right now-- have you requested a 1-1 which can help you more personally through your current crisis, which we in the group chat are not as qualified to do?" Such intervention could defuse some tension and induce a little more positivity to the situation than totally ignoring someone just because you don't know how to help.
Just sayin'....
The moderators themselves aren't such an issue I think, but the rules they have to follow are like a flowers and rainbows version of 1940 Germany, they're set up to fail basically and it's hard for them to remain friendly with people if they have to act like that. And instead of just following the rules and giving warning you also give them the task to guide the rooms and interpret the rules with a lot of freedom, which always allows for members to critisize mods. And now you want them to give warnings to members who give eachother nicknames? That's not going to end up well.
I acknowledge the presence of friend groups in the group support room, but I would like to bring a new perspective to this issue. Of course while stating any problem, we would have to consider all the causes and solutions, so here is my two cents not only as a moderator but also as a listener - 2.5 months in 7cups.
- Most people who are regulars in the room are known to each other for an year on more, that means though they might still be anonymous to each other with regards to sharing personal information, they are also bound closely by sharing their personal experience, their troubles and day to day issues on the 7Cups chat rooms. This of course leads to forming of a 7C friendship group ( for the lack of a better word).
- The guest or new members who visit the room might at first feel the environment a bit overwhelming, I do agree. As far as my experience, when such a thing happens, I welcome them in the room, and try to include them in the conversation. I cannot comment on individual experiences or ' Hear- Say' scenarios but then I can vouch for the fact that most of those so called regular members, at least in the rooms I have frequented are very helpful and they really care to listen to new members/guest and provide them the support.
- There is also a problem of the kind of room the new member/guests visit. For example the members in a light hearted chat room may feel it overwhelming when a member discusses a serious relationship issue or depression related problem. In such condition, the member may feel being left out if they don't get enough support for their issues. I guess this is where we as a moderator have to step in and offer them to browse listeners or try the correct room depending on the nature of the problem and the support required.
- The group rooms offer support to individuals but cannot offer the same level of attention a 1-1 chat with a listener would be able to offer. The members would have to try and understand this and try the various support features that 7Cups offers for its members/guests. Yes, I can proudly state that this site offers various levels of support starting with self - help guides , 1-1 listener support to group support rooms, forums, feeds, the list goes on. So it is also necessary for a member to understand the nature of each levels of support and choose the one that is best suitable for them.
- I would also like to say that though moderators face a bit of hostility due to various reasons, I don't think I have faced any issue while trying to welcome a new member in the room or while trying to include them in any conversation. On contrary I have received a lot of support from the members for the same.
- Group involvement can be also achieved by organising events like ice breakers, discussions, and games which can increase member participation and involvement. As an events team member I strongly encourage and welcome new events ideas.
- I would like to add a personal experience here which may help the new moderators or any other moderators who feel the hostility in chat rooms. When I first started as a moderator before a month or so, I was totally new to the rooms, and I follow the rules strictly every single time, so due to moderator inconsistency ( unfortunately, still an issue) and due to the fact that I was a new bie among the regulars, I felt the situation overwhelming and a bit hostile. With days however I was able to establish trust in people on the rooms I moderate that though I follow rules, I am never partial or biased to any individual and I don't have any personal grudges towards anyone. I also offer a listener support to members when I feel they need a kind listening ear and a friendly encouragement. So when I do enforce rules, most of the members understand it isn't personal. I do receive loads of support from the members and I am able to maintain a very good positive and supportive environment in the chat rooms most of the times.
I thank all the members who are kind and supportive to the moderators and I do wish every moderator gets a more supportive environment to play their role. Moderators can be good friends too until and unless any rule is broken. So Include us in your friendship group and help us create the supportive environment everyone needs and deserves :)
By the way, special thanks to @Fallenage31 for their effort and dedication to the support rooms in welcoming each and every member/listener/moderator/guest alike.
[edited by forum mentor per sunshineNrainbows's request]
First, @ValentineLove for president/dictator/queen/whatever... Great analysis!
Second, the moderator issue is a fixable problem. It is both a problem, and fixable. But it requires some choices. The site either needs to go all-in on having carefully moderated forums (which may mean reducing the number of rooms to match moderator availability, better training and closer supervision of moderator behavior) or acknowledge that these rooms are necessarily self-moderated for the most part (and limit moderator roles to rooting out active malicious trolling, letting go much of the rule enforcement that currently can happen.
Disrespect for moderators is abhorrent, but understandable. An efficient way to breed disrespect for the law is to enforce it in seemingly arbitrary and capricious ways, and that is how it often appears to members/guests. When moderators are absent more often than not, rooms find their own norms - and often get along just fine. I've often seen it happen that a room is chugging along great with no moderator, then an inexperienced or overzealous (but well-meaning) moderator arrives and, ignoring any context, starts hunting for rules violations.
Even good moderators are really set up to fail. The most effective trolls know the rules and very consciously work to bait their prey into violating one with a moderator present. Unless a moderator spends many hours a day in a specific room and knows the "regulars" and their tendencies it is almost impossible to sniff out this kind of baiting behavior and respond in full knowledge of the politics. This ultimately serves to further degrade respect for and trust in moderators.
Finally, it should also be noted that there are, to put it bluntly, some bad moderators. And nobody in the room as an immediate recourse in those cases - mods cannot be muted. It is possible to report moderators but the process is quite cumbersome - the link to doing this is not as handy as a mute button, but probably should be, as the inability to immediately petition for some kind of redress of a perceived bad act by a moderator reinforces the tendency to view them suspiciously as unaccountable and power-mad.
I would never want to be a moderator under this system. The deck is stacked so heavily against any of them that success is as much a matter of chance as skill. I think moderators, with just a few exceptions, have taken on a thankless and at times impossible task and should be thanked for helping keep the site safer.
Third, regarding "cliques" and such - yes, "regulars should," when they can, make a special effort to welcome newcomers, and I see this happen routinely. I've also seen people shut out, but I agree with ValentineLove that not everyone on the site can spend all their time looking out for others when they themselves are suffering. It's worth remembering that many of those who feel shut out also come here with issues that make them unusually sensitive to perceived slights, and especially when new to a chatroom might be primed to misinterpret a fast chat as a bunch of people ignoring them. We should be sensitive to this, but often it's nobody's fault when someone feels ignored - it's just an unfortunate confluence of circumstances.
