I Hate Being Pretty…
TW - Objectification
I love being pretty. I really do. I’m confident, sure of myself, sharp in wit and intelligence and critical thinking. I’m fun to be around, a jokester, a class clown, the one who includes everyone and makes friends all the time. I walk into work and there’s a joyful chorus of “Kiara!!!” (but with my real name, of course).
But there’s a dark side.
Being pretty, thin, and vivacious makes men think of me as an object.
I’ve been (essentially) catcalled, ogled, called beautiful by old men, and… worse.
I wear baggy, ugly clothes for two reasons: My sensory issues due to autism, and… the disgusting ways that men look at my body.
I am NOT a plaything.
I’m insecure and fearful physically because of the way men have mistreated and disrespected me. I’ve been cornered. Had old men want to date me. Even had one guy act like he wanted to fight me.
And people wonder why I despise men.
I’m not the only one. I’ve heard others say similar things. Our lives read like a #metoo hashtag.
Say it loud for the people in the back…
~~~KINDNESS IS NOT AN INVITATION!~~~
I am so thankful to my male friends and coworkers who treat me as human, respect me, even treat me like one of the boys. I feel so much more comfortable that way… I’d rather be one of the boys than feel scared and threatened.
The guys my age treat me so respectfully, kindly, inclusively… Even when they’re into me.
The older men… They’re the ones I fear the most.
Older men stare at me, size me up, make unwanted comments.
Why can’t guys just respect me? And other women?? Why do we women have to stand up for each other and protect each other from unwanted advances?
I thank God for those amazing men in my life who protect me, intervene, walk me out so I feel safe.
Those men make it so I don’t lose faith in men completely.
But… it happens all the time. We fear because we remember.
We know. “Not all men…”
But we don’t know which men.
@jesusredeemedme2425
🥺
Yes, that sucks for sure!
I'm blessed that I have the best brothers and father in the world, that pace the way to show that many men are respectful, kind, caring and aware and recently i have come across many men here who also are just here to be a calming and safe presence.
You are you!
You are pretty.
Vivaciousm
Don't let any man or woman take that from you ever 💜💕
So, the subject came up in a book that I'm reading, and it turns out that it's a thing. Women can totally feel the "male gaze". They don't have to see it happening. It might be similar to feeling like you're being watched. Sounds like it would be insanely unsettling...
That hits hard that your lives read like a #metoo hashtag. I get why women would choose being in the wilderness with the bear over the man. All of it makes sense to me, but other men get so mad over that. One thing you've gotta remember is that with men, the more they react to something like that or act with machoness the more insecure they are inside.
Maybe us guys have to be more in touch with our feminine side. Like, at work, I joke that I'm going to shatter my fragile masculinity when the men's room is closed and I have to use the women's. I also try to listen and understand, so hopefully I'm doing ok in not being like those guys.
As a guy though, I'm interested in helping the cause for women. Like, yeah, I check girls out all the time, but I never want to make them uncomfortable. I also wish I could think of a way to help with this issue in particular...
I'm definitely sorry guys are making you feel like that though. You deserve to be able to feel comfortable in your own skin without having to worry about all their gazes and behaviors.
My mom notices guys staring at me more than I do. I’m sometimes unaware.
That’s too weird… I sent my mom screenshots of what I wrote last night, and her response was “Trust the bear.” She had to explain what that meant… And then you wrote the same thing.
THIS. Why do guys freak out and refuse to use the women’s restroom when it’s empty, and theirs is being cleaned? Why??
Guys checking us out isn’t a huge deal, as long as they’re respectful and we don’t notice. Being admired is one thing. Being ogled and leered at and receiving disgusting, uncomfortable comments is quite another.
Honestly, I wonder how aware I'd be of it if I was a girl. I can be pretty oblivious... 😅
Yeah, the bear thing has been making its rounds. Like, it makes sense to me. Nature is terrifying, but a creature like a bear deserves just as much respect as fear. Men... Well, sometimes there's aspects of men that can be a little unnatural. Disreputable.
Lol, I don't know. Though... I can understand women preferring not to use the guy's room. I dunno though, they're both pretty equally dirty sometimes.
So, how often do you think it is respectful? And what are the worst things they've done that brought this post on?
If anyone is confused about the bear thing… read this.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/06/us/man-bear-safety-***-question-cec
Our bathroom can be pretty gross lol
I honestly don’t know, because if it’s respectful in the best way, I probably wouldn’t be aware of it <3
Let’s just say… When that guy cornered me… it wasn’t just to talk.
The app censored a word -_- Just look up “man or bear”. The CNN link should pop up.
Wait, a guy cornered you? For something other than talking? O_O
I'm gonna say something that not many would be comfortable staying, especially in this context. First of all, don't get me wrong, i'm not being shameless or disrespectful. Take it as a test, a bit for myself, and a bit for you. Maybe more for myself than you, but that's beside the point.
I'm a man, 24yo. I'm lonely... like... i'd pay for a hug kinda lonely. I like WOMEN. It might be a disease or something, but i do. I do also like souls though. But... you see... soul and body are two separate things. Many times i ask myself. Why i don't like men? Like... just... why? They also have souls, i had more men that I've shared my ideas with than women... so why would i be so attracted towards something that was always so far away of my reach? It's like a magnet... if i see a pretty woman, i get monkey mode. Am i sick? Like... I've been meditating about this thing for years by now. And i came to the conclusion that... if a man comes to me, hungs me and kisses me, i think i'd stsrt crying and just not care of his gender. But i don't think that i'd like his body anyway. As for a woman? If she tells me i'm well dressed, oh boy i'm never changing again for a month.
So... when you say you're pretty... of course thst thing of "oh yeah? i wanna be the judge of that" triggered. But after reading everything, i was like... "Why am inlike this? What's wrong with me?"... so... I don't know... i guess it's genetic or something... i'm doing my efforts to find a meaningful partner and look for qualities in that person. And i'm gonna be honest here and now. The thing i fear the most in life is falling in love with somebody and this ugly corner of my mind telling me "nah, she's ugly" like... at that point i'd just hate myself and be ashamed of watching myself in the mirror...
Any opinions? Sorry if this felt disrespectful or wrong. This was me venting about something very vwry difficult for me to speak about. It's kind of a man issue? I guess it is at this point... but i'd like also the opinion of a woman about this since... people have one of two genders, and both matter equally... so... yeah...
Tell me i'm disgusting if you think i am. I'm not fonna pretend this is fine and i'm not expecting backlash. I want honesty, not kind words. I wanna know what is wrong. I wanna grow.
P.S. I respect and treat everybody equally and i believe that everybody should be equally respected and respectful. I'm not here to spread disrespect or anything of the sort. This is just me opening up and hoping to have a polite discussion about something i think it's an issue that affects both me and the author of this post from different perspectives. I wish nothing but peace and quiet to everybody and i'm sorry if my post seemed disrespectful.
@DryRain16 no there's nothing wrong with you sweetie 💖 as humans we are programmed to find others attractive, I we are also all programmed to find some attractive others ugly, it's just the way we are/have always been. The only thing separating us from any other creature is laws and morals and if everyone just stuck to those we wouldn't have a problem. But it's not just men, in my experience I've met women who are worse than men. So posts like theese have to be handled very carefully, cause though everyone's fears are normal and should be respected and validated, there is still a fine line between sexism. And sexism is very wrong can make people feel bad for being born a certain gender and that needs to be taken into consideration, noone should feel bad for their gender, race, religion or feelings. So no there is absolutely nothing wrong with you 💗
I’m sorry if I offended anyone… I’m just afraid of men.
One cornered me… I had to report him for what he did, at the same time.
Another tried to break my finger and physically threw me out of his car.
One made me afraid that he was going to fight me.
I’ve been hit, abused, neglected, manipulated, insulted… I’ve been viewed as a toy, a punching bag, an object.
I’m afraid because of the memories… The flashbacks.
Firstly, thanks to both @Tinywhisper11 and @jesusredeemedme2425 for participating to this thread.
@jesusredeemedme2425, i wan't you to know that i didn't feel offended. If anything i had a few hours of feeling guilty that i might have actually offended you for talking abous something so... difficult to approach.
What i was trying to say with that post was that: 1. I'm a man, and i have these feelings, i feel atraction towards women. 2) This atraction can at times make me... maybe with the wrong context and aproach seem as if i'd objectify somebody 3) despite all i just said, i'm trying to get through the idea that i'm absolutly agains violence, objectifications and lack of respect towards people just because they're a specific gender, or just different.
Maybe i'd find you "pretty" if i'd see you on the street. Maybe that would be for me a reason to be interested in you if the circumstances were right. But in absolutly no circumstance i belive that any man that finds you pretty should keep trying something with you after you show disinterest. That's the heavy line between trying to politely introduce yourself to somebody that catches your interest and being rude and agressive, abusive.
So... if you'd like... if you consider it worth your time. I'd like to hear more about your experiences and... maybe... if you want to... ask me questions without having to worry about being judged. I mean... i'm a man, maybe you have a question to ask to a man that you haven't had the chance due to fears or whatnot. So here i am. Just say the word if you're interested. If not, it's ok. I wish you the best!
I agree. Attraction and harassment are two very different things…
Ask whatever you’d like :)
I've been thinking for a few days for something to ask. I wasn't really ready to question something but...
In your personal opinion and based on your experience and the events you went through. How do you think a man should approach you? Like... circumstances, ways... what's "respectful" and what's "too much" for you? What are your bounderies when it comes to this?
If a guy wants to get my attention without coming on too strong… just make conversation. Joke. Tease. Make me feel comfortable with you. Just… be a friend. It’s just like how you’d treat another guy. Just be friendly. You don’t have to look me up and down, or immediately ask me out, or call me beautiful. If you treat me with kindness and respect and engage with me, I’ll notice you. I’ll also feel safe enough to, if I’m interested, to consider you a potential love interest.
A little kindness and respect go a long way for a girl. If I feel safe with you, you might just end up getting a date.
***BUT***
This is key.
Don’t just do this with the intent to date me.
Do it with the intent of gaining a new friend.
We can sense the difference.
Well… I’m not saying that what you’re saying is wrong. But there are people who more often look for dates than friends. That’s just how some people are, and I don’t really see it as a bad thing per se.
I think it’s important to make things clear, and as you said, your kindness and openness probably sometimes gets misunderstood as openness to dating, which it is, in a way — but not for dating strangers (which I totally agree is a good thing to avoid until there's a comfortable level of trust between the two).
Personally, I’m a man, but I don’t really understand these things… like… how can a person just approach another one like that and start talking? Personally, I’d feel awkward right on the spot. At the same time, I just can’t find a way to approach someone in a way that wouldn’t feel intrusive or inappropriate… Of course, I’m talking about situations where I don’t need to approach the person — I just find them interesting or attractive.
Also, another question:
You said men shouldn’t come to you with the intention to date. But… isn’t that what people do when they feel attracted to someone? So then, what should a man in that situation do? Just ignore you because he can’t ignore the attraction he feels for you and doesn't feel capable to be "just a friend"? Or try to be a friend, hoping that something else might eventually happen?
Because if you ask me, none of the answers seem entirely fair. But maybe, they should just make it a bit obvious that they're looking more for a date than a friend and so, yes, just avoid you, since you're not open for dating strangers. I think that's the final answer. You shouldn't do what you're not comfortable doing. But what do you think about this whole situation?
I think that guys who feel they’re not capable of seeing this person as just a friend, aren’t mature enough. If you are only viewing women as potential mates, you are really limiting yourself, and it’s almost as bad as objectifying women. It’s seeing us as a means to an end, instead of as individuals.
Let me tell you how my first boyfriend respectfully pursued me, without being too overt… He sat next to me in the breakroom at work, and every so often, showed me a funny meme on his phone. He did this periodically, but was gentle and didn’t push anything on me. I literally hadn’t noticed his existence before that. He gently moved his way into my life, without pushing an agenda on me, and I woke up and noticed him. This gently blossomed and we eventually started dating.
It’s the little things. <3
Honestly, i think you're right, and youe experience was amazing. I wish i had such an experience. Thanks for sharing it with me and us.
Sometimes we think that everything is so important that we forget to be simple... I stand for honesty and communication above all else. Even if it hurts or is ugly, if it's the truth, than it's worth saying it. I don't think we can grow without talking, and these little things that we're not aware of, in time become assumptions, and major influences of people's characters.
I'd really like to be able to speak to somebody about these things and ask for directions. Thanks for replying so far!
Maybe that could be your goal… Be that safe place for the women around you. Be their friend, protect them, show them you don’t have an agenda, just be there and show them they can trust you. No agendas. No motives. Your goal is to be a friend, a safe place, a refuge. And that only. <3
Also, keep talking, keep asking. I’m an open book, and I love these kinds of discussions, if the other person is gentle and kind about it <3
And everyone else… Feel free to chime in here <3
What if i want more though? For me personally. I want intimacy, but i don't like the idea of doing it with somebody i don't trust as a person.
Of course i want a friend and confidant, but... I can't hide that there's both feeling and needs going on in me. There's one side that carves for somebody to talk to, help, protect, mean something to and support. I want that, and i did it for some for years, even a girl, once, without pushing bounderies disrespectfully (I've been honest about my feelings after a few years of being friends... got rejected with the argument that "I can't see you as my boyfriend, you're too meaningful to me to be that. You're like family to me at this point". Then moved on as friends for another couple of years, and finally we broke apart after life separated us).
And then there's another half... an equally strong need for somebody, touch. For somebody's shoulder to cry on, somebody warmth. A girl that would just be open to listen to me and be ok with me hugging her... and if the feelings are right, maybe more.
The two are mixed, I can't pretend to want a friendship with a girl without being at least being awake that there's this corner of my mind thst craves for this closeness. For me a slow and deep hug is something i cherish for years moving on.
How do you see this from your perspective and considering what we've been saying so far? Am i a potential abuser for seeing a woman that's pretty this way? I want to understand. I want to protect. But i also want something back. I'm not gonna ask, that's not my way of doing things. I usually never ask or say what hurts until it becomes unbearable. I prefer licking my wounds in a corner than telling people around me what is wrong with me. But despite this, i still want it. To not just give but also recieve...
And yes, woman doesn't mean atraction. And pretty woman doesn't mean that i'd be necessary atracted neither. The physical beauty is a factor, but there's also character, personally and passions that deeply affects what i like or dislike in a person and woman. And from experience, it happened to me to see a pretty face that after knowing a little better... due to character flaws and lack of integrity... suddenly i couldn't see her as pretty anymore, although her face was the same...
So it's not a purely objectification of a person. It's a way to just see people. It's a balance... so my question is... how wrong is this balance?
P.S. I hope i didn't say anything wrong. I'm anxious about saying something the wrong way and sending the wrong message every time i write something about this topic...
@jesusredeemedme2425 I'm sorry if i said something wrong or if my text bothers you. I thought i could be open to write similar things here and get support... now i feel as if i'm a maniac or worse... i'm sorry for being like this... i guess this may not be the right place to speak openly about my issues...
@DryRain16
I'm so sorry, I totally forgot to come back to this post!
Never apologize for being yourself, and for sharing your thoughts and feelings. All are welcome, as long as they're kind and respectful. <3
I don't have a lot of input on this; I'm more focused on how guys can make me feel safe.
Perhaps one of the other readers here can share their thoughts on that?
I have a question for you... I'm curious as to your thoughts. Can men share their feelings without being seen as less masculine? How can the stereotype of masculinity be changed from stoic, strong, unemotional men, to feeling, self-aware, empathetic men?
Apologies accepted, but know that i haven't posted anything since then, i thought i made you uncomfortable and you ignored me so i didn't want to make anybody else uncomfortable with my presence.
First of all, i'm somebody that isn't comfortable as long as the others around me are comfortable. I wouldn't be able to rest well with the thought that i may have made somebody uncomfortable and i'm deeply sorry if i made you think that i might be someone similar.
As for your question, "can a man share their feelings without being less masculine?" my personal opinion about this question is, yes. It can, but it's a difficult thing to do. Masculinity is something obtained through hard work and coldness and a strength and unflinching believes that in my personal, ofter makes those alpha males difficult to express their feelings. Making the concept of masculunity kinda unable to even meet feelings at all. Personally, i find masculinity to be a max of strength, physical and mental, leadership capabilities, honor and roughness.
However, what i just said above kinda rarely applies to reality. People often mix up the "masculine" side of strength with violence and the "leadership" with manipulation. So the whole masculine argument goes deeper. What I just said i think masculinity about masculinity is something that i genuinely don't advise anybody to try becoming. That's the definition of a god, not a human.
Personality, men should be masculine to some degree and women femminine IF they feel comfortable in being seen masculine or feminine to that degree. But nobody should try to focus or how masculine or feminine they are. In other words, men shouldn't be insensitive because it isn't masculine, that's stupid, because lack of respect isn't good neither, it's way worse.
Personally i'm a very emotional, i cry, i'm a cuddle bug and i want to understand everybody around me. I don't and never did care about my own masculinity that much. Yes, i'd like to be physically stronger and maybe taller... to have better leadership skills too. But i'm not like that. That's just not me. And it's fine. I think it's whatever. What i seek is something different. So the thing is not whether or not men can be both masculine and share their feelings at the same time, but if they should be mature enough to understand that feelings don't make them less masculine. Understanding yourself and making yourself understood and being honest i think is as important or even more important than being masculine as a man. And if you push a part of yourself away from you, then your masculinity falls flat when you fail emotionally. That's also why men have difficulties to manage their emotions, because society often expects them to never cry and be cold. It happens to some of us.
I hope we can continue this conversation, i'm very curious to keep talking about this topic with you. I'm looking forward for arguments, opinions, or questions. You don't have to agree with me, all i expect is respect and honesty. As long as we have that, i think we can talk forever about anything and everything.
Please don’t blame me for your choice to not post.
I'm not and never did. I just gave tou feedback on my perspective. The point wasn't to blame, but to offer another perspective.
Would you like to discuss on about anything i just wrote above?
Some are hard takes, other are very easily missinterpretatable concepts.
I feel kinda the same way as you, but for opposite reasons. I'm ugly, but the problem is not on us woman being pretty or ugly. It's on men. Most of them just got a free pass to being stopid. Very few stop to think their own actions, because "that's what mans do". They don't have to acess their consciousness much, they are too busy building their own empire.They are selfish to the core, and are never ever going to change. Now the question still remaining is, are there really any different men? Or we just don't want to give up on them due to our learned codepedency? Do i really need a man to tell me i'm pretty? I don't even believe a thing they say anymore.
@jesusredeemedme2425 I know you've been hurt and for that I'm so sorry sweetie 😥 it's understandable why your so afraid, gives you a giant tiny hug 💗 I love you 💗 and I'm always if you need to talk 💖
I think the important thing for everyone to realise here is men and women can be just as terrifying as each other. There is no difference between men and women and it's not fair to make any one gender, race, religion, coulor, feel like a monster because of the few that hurt us. So please don't condemn a whole group just because of a few💖
See post above.
Also, I’m not saying women are better. Women have backstabbed me and more too. But I’m not afraid to be physically near women like I am with men…
@jesusredeemedme2425 I know your not saying anything wrong here 💖 theese are your experiences and your feelings, and I'm glad you were able to open up 💖 I really feel for you because I know what the fear is like😥 and I did not write my comments to hurt you or put you down in any way 💖 you know I love you and care about you deeply💖. It's just I read a post similar to this quite a while ago, and alot of men answered the post with such heartwarming messages of apologies for being a certain gender, and it hit hard. We fight for equality but don't always realise we are doing the same thing to them. It just always hits hard 😥 I'm sorry sweetie
It’s a little like…
When one person insults you, you can’t even acknowledge when another hundred people compliment you. The pain is greater than the compliments.
It’s a little like that… The men who hurt you, scare you, break you… It’s hard to remember the dozens, hundreds, of men in my life right now who respect me, and love me, and protect me. The fear is so much stronger.
@jesusredeemedme2425 site beside you and hugs you tightly 💖 wipes away your tears, yeah I completely understand that 😥 I'm sorry if my comments weren't as supportive as they should have been🙁 I do care about you are very special to me 💖
I feel attacked for having feelings :(
@jesusredeemedme2425 I'm so sorry😥😥
@Tinywhisper11 I should not have said anything I should not even be here 😥
Noooo hush lol <3
@Tinywhisper11
Of course you should!
@jesusredeemedme2425
Everything you said is valid!
@jesusredeemedme2425
In no way, was this post bashing all men, it was legitimately talking about actions of men that made you uncomfortable and that's valid. Nor did it indicate or villify all men. There's absolutely nothing wrong with any man finding a woman attractive , that's natural, the problem arises when the way they treat a woman is based on how attractive they find her, treat her well if she's attractive, disrespect her if not, no ones worth is tied to your desire for them. Its about listening, not sexualising them especially when they don't want it, it's about hearing what they are saying, it's about not limiting them to what pleasures you can attain from them. Its about sticking to boundaries, allowing people to be comfortable in their own skin. Saying how you feel and how you've experienced things, does not say all men are incapable of decency, but it doesn't detract from the many who fell short with you. Its not anyones given right to ogle or make you feel like they can touch, be sure you look anyway. You owe no one anything 💜💕
Ur real name is not Kiara?
Nope. Hehe. It’s my pseudonym :)
@jesusredeemedme2425 im 17...and i know what you mean :/ im thin because of eating troubles, but men dont care about that. Including teachers. Never anything to report about them, other than he looks at me like that, talks to me like that, or only me. Noones gotten physical with me, thankfully, I dont know self defence (yet). And you dont have to be pretty i think (im not). Ive had guys on cups start, with no more info than that im a girl. Like thats enough for them
I can handle myself online, no biggie. Irl though-
not all men, but its not like they wear signs.
That last part tho. YES.
I’m sorry you have gone through this. You are right on all accounts. These boys (I don’t dare call them men because they haven’t grown up past the teenage stage, no matter the age) make men look bad. I am glad that you have respectable male co-workers and male friends. My advice is to stick closer to them. If any boy comes up to you or start causing problems, these co-workers and friends will stand by you and protect you.
I definitely do <3 I had one of my guys work with someone who was saying inappropriate things to me, years ago. I still remember all these years later how my buddy was kind, and didn’t hesitate to cover for me so I wouldn’t be mistreated anymore. He was so sweet <3
@jesusredeemedme2425
your absolutely right Men are men at the end of the day. And I wish i could tell you that it gets better or that it will change over time but both of us women know that's not true. These men also pray on children like myself of the past
i can relate to you.i know how that feels and im sorry, but like I've always said, we women and victims of men like this, we have to stick together
but there is a Mr. Right out there somewhere. He may not be all sunshine all the time, but I hope you can find him.
coming from a place of love, sending my best wishes
I would love to find love.