10/24/18: Guest Accounts Update
Hello Community!
Throughout the past year, we have taken measures to improve the safety of 7 Cups by requiring email verification for any member or listener to participate in the forums or in the group support rooms.
In an effort to continue to make 7 Cups as safe as possible, we would like to discuss the removal of guest accounts from the site. We have many guests using the site in hurtful and unsupportive ways and moving forward we would like everyone to verify their emails in order to participate in any area of 7 Cups.
We need to tighten this last piece of the puzzle up to ensure the safety of our listeners and members in 1-1 chats. The timeline for this update is TBA. But we wanted to share this update with you now to give you the chance to share feedback.
Thank you!
@Laura @jill7cups @Power @Heather225
Are there technical issues happening now on the site with the guest accounts? I can't find a member a member who I talk with regularlly who had a guest account. I find this bizar because she said hello to me several hours ago. But now her account is no where. We had agreed to talk to day. What's going on?
@SensitiveAndMore guest accounts are still active. Maybe your guest became a member and changed their username? I don't know.
@kindSoul10
ok thanks
@Kate I am in favor to erase those guest accounts, as usually after the first chat, you have a binary choice, you stay or you go. If you are a guest for ainfinite time, you are just wasting your time and the listeners time, as your motivation is not self growth, is bullying or harrassing
@MarcelK
I don't think this is correct, being a guest doesn't necessarily mean they are wasting anyone's time. Not all guests bully or harrass. I have spoken to some who could hardly get any computer time due to their situation and were not able to create accounts.
@sereneSoul23
The guests i am complaining about were not friendly
Don't wanna say a lot, but I think guests should be given AT LEAST a minimum usage trial so that they can experience how this site is before being a member. And hey, pls let us DELETE COMMENTS OURSELVES instantly on these forum threads if we want.
@Kate
I personally pick up quite a few chats from members and guests that try to use the website in inappropriate ways. We can block and report users when they are abusing the site. Requiring email verification is adding a step that people who really need this, especially young teenagers who might have parents checking up on their email don't need. I believe that this might just deter the people who really need this the most.
@theBlackSheep11
"especially young teenagers who might have parents checking up on their email"
I can relate to this so so so much. Couple this with the stigma around therapy and seeking help and I have enough reason to not share my email with the site.
(Don't tell me that I can delete the emails because I cannot take the risk of not missing an email to delete and my parents finding it in my inbox.)
@IntrovertedDreamer73409 This is the main reason why people should be against getting rid of guest accounts the people who need this site the most those who need emotional support the most are those who are in abusive and controlling relationships who are legitimately afraid to give their email because it is regularly checked by parents or spouses ... people of all ages can be living with someone who monitors their email and internet activity who knows their email login info and of course there are also people who struggle with paranoia due to mental illness so whether its a percieved danger that would prevent them from getting help on 7cups by giving their email or an actual real danger that exists by giving out their email and joining a help site . Requiring an email excludes many many people who are scared to give out their email and those are the people who are in the most desperate need of emotional support
@jennysunrise8
Truly. Which is why anonymity is so central to 7cups.
@jennysunrise8
Very good point about domestic abuse and how this can apply to all ages.
@IntrovertedDreamer73409
**Missing an email to delete
@IntrovertedDreamer73409
Tagging a few people @Kate @Power @Heather225 @Lucy
@theBlackSheep11 the solution to the problem of "trolls" (human beings who are being difficult and acting inappropriately and/or annoying) is absolutely to train listeners in dealing with these difficult situations and find a way to ban guest IPs as well as member IPs for chronic abusers of the system as a last resort after attempts by well trained listeners have been tried and have failed after warnings that they will be banned . 7 cups must find a way to ban IP addresses if there is even going to be a dent in fixing this problem of people as long as IPs cannot be blocked there will always be a problem with all sorts of people who have the wrong intentions just getting on here with a new guest account .
There is both a serious problem with requiring everyone to give an email to create an account and also a serious problem with people who have the wrong intentions creating multiple guest accounts and thats by working on the ability to not block the temporary easily changed guest account but the persons IP i know there are ways around this and those issues will also have to be tackled in the future as anyone in law enforcement knows staying one step ahead is a constant battle but shutting down all banks so that people wont rob them is not the solution right?
@jennysunrise8 @Kate
As far as I knew, IP Ban already exists, however it doesn't work since people just use other techniques to dodge 'em that I'm not gonna state but knowing my luck has already been mentioned on this thread anyway.
But now that Cups is actually employing and paying staff to work on the site, I've always been an advocate for employing someone specifically for dealing with trolls and IP issues. When theres an adament problem, the person speaks to that staff member and gives in names of the multiple accounts. The staff member should be able to review a history of IP log on those accounts and look for patterns. From there, action can be taken and possibly further IP Bans. In the long-term, this could evolve into an algorithm and someone employed to modify, tweak an update this as necessary and also to take requests from people where there've been bugs or accidental messes with it, to restore faith etc.
I can still see holes in this solution that people will be able to exploit and get through however it is one way of tightening the screws on persistent abuse of it and will make things that one step tougher and that one bit more deterrable.
Alternatively we could also have "good cop, bad cop" scenario where someone is employed to essentially mediate and resolve issues on an emotional level before things explode into a tyrannical tyrade.
More ideas to follow. Actually I remember stating this idea about a year ago to a couple of the mods that were failing to help me at the time during problems, but, ironically enough, due to the loopholes cascading these problems, the mods at the time were too apathetic to really be bothered bout it. Nice that I can bring this up again now.
Thanks,
RedMeeko x
@RedMeeko
isn't this what @Power and @Heather225 are doing?
@MistyMagic
Is it? You tell me. Or someone tell me. I don't really care so much about people using ways to dodge bans personally (I know y'all do); But if it involves someone being victimised or bullied and deliberately targetted, and repeated attempts over long periods of time, and no resolution because they just keep dodging, like that bothers me. Because someone who comes here because they are vulnerable is getting hurt in the process. Its the top offenders bother me -- The ones who no-one knows who their real name is or who they are, because they're only purpose on the site is malicious or malevolent and is on multiple accounts with no "cohesive one identity" or publically known identity. Theres a difference between these types of trolls and just normal users who are acting up a bit or users that tend to cut a bit close to the bone... Whole different level. One is forgivable whilst the other is a repeat problem.
Anyway yeah rant over cheers x
@RedMeeko
Well not "Real name" but like identity as in we know that person is a regular or that person is that display picture or whatever...
I mean the ones that have no intention of any genuinity or vulnerability or connection at all, just a random person in the world who is looking to troll and has found the perfect venue to do it, a bit like people taking the mick on Omegle.
x
@RedMeeko i dont think they do block ips only put blockes on accounts and that would makes sense if every person could only have one email account but of course everyone knows you can have as many free email accounts as you want and if they are able to block ips of members they can do the same with guest accounts instead of taking all guest accounts away if 7cups could detect and block ips which is what they should do other websites are able to do ban ips yes there are some things people can do to get around it 7cups will have to not allow like one person commented not allow people to use a vpn to mask their ip a system can detect when someone is doing that and anything else that people start using but like dave said itll just lead to more people making member and listener accounts to troll or advertise its just slightly easier to just get an instant guest account but just requiring so its really not going to lead to less trolling or less spam the people will just make member accounts so well just see more member accounts doing it its only going to really take away from people who need to use guest accounts because they cant use an email address to sign up for one reason or another but are here for the right reasons to get help
@jennysunrise8 IP bans can block areas. It's really really the last resort. Behind one single IP can be many legitimate distinct users. An IP isn't bound to one person.
@RedMeeko
if 7cups is capable of banning ips they can do the same and ban the ips of guest accounts guest accounts are just slightly easier to get than an email based member account but only by the short amount of time it takes to create and provide a free email account so itll slow it down a tiny bit but not come close to solving the source of the problem which is not having the ability to block people who are here for the wrong reasons (if they do have the capabily its not being done for some reason) it will really only take access away from the many people who are in extremely bad situations who can really use 7cups but wont be able to because they cant give an email although creating an account any other way isnt going to be any less secure than creating an account based on a free instant email address and itll continue to give access to the people who need it but cant give an email
but its really a problem of either people not reporting or the people who are getting the reports not tracking activity in an organized way blocking (if its a case of the blocks not working for some reason that definately needs to be focused on and fixed) maybe all those things are a problem people are either not reporting guest accounts or nothing is being done with those reports theyre not being blocked for some reason so no wonder people come here to advertise for free if they can and noone stops them from doing it because of some dysfunction in the system same with the people who just come to harass or bully people if they want to and can then they will 7cups has to make it so they cant do it or at least work on the systemic problems that are enabling it to happen guest accounts are not the problem the problem not being effective in banning people who should be banned and taking away guest accounts isnt going to make 7cups more capable of keeping these people out there will just be more people creating member accounts and trolling and spamming on a variety of member accounts
7cups just wont be accessable to a lot of people who need it but cant get on 7cups because of an issuue with giving an email but as a few people here have said the decision has probabally already been made i just hope they add the option for people to create an account a few different ways if giving an email address isnt good for them to do in their situation and its not a small group of people who dont save secure email accounts or is afraid to give an email there should be different ways to create an account here (not that accounts are the problem or solution here anyways)
There are some underlying technical impossibilities here, unfortunately.
It's impossible to identify a person by IP address. It was possible in the very early days of the Internet, and some very old or over-simplified textbooks might give an out of date impression, but it is no longer possible now. Technology has moved on.
It's perfectly possible to block an IP address, but you end up blocking a bunch of innocent people while the troll can easily get a new address. At home where I'm typing this I can get a new IP address in about 30 seconds without leaving my chair. Someone using a public wifi hotspot or telephone cell only has to walk down the street.
In the worst case, word gets around that someone is using 7 Cups for support, and a bully deliberately connects on the same IP and curses in a chatroom in order to get the victim's IP blocked. Now the victim can't get support from 7 Cups. Let's not enable that kind of scenario.
It's impossible to verify an e-mail address. Internet mail has built-in security that prevents it. The thing 7 Cups does at present doesn't even come close. If 7 Cups' tech people really thought about it they could come a little closer, but the fact remains that Internet mail has built-in security preventing addresses from being verified.
There are interpersonal problems at 7 Cups, and I believe they have interpersonal solutions. There is no technological quick fix for issues around the way people interact with each other. We all need to face facts and develop the interpersonal solutions we need here.
@jennysunrise8
@RarelyCharlie i was kind of thinking of ip address as something that is tied to a specific device that person is using maybe im thinking of something else (?) right i agree thats a bad idea if it blocks other people in the area or is easily changed it needs to be something thats only connected to that persons device and can be detected
Yes, there is also a MAC address, which identifies a specific device. But as far as I know it is not visible to 7 Cups' servers, so 7 Cups can't use it to block anyone. Also, I understand it's very easy to change. And of course some devices are shared by more than one person.
@jennysunrise8
@RarelyCharlie
Very interested in your response. Will reply back later when I get a bit of spare space. x
@Kate
This is a wonderful idea!!! I am always getting Guests that are only here to waste my time. When will this be going into effect?
@kylerj78 Not sure yet! We're just reviewing all your feedback for now and will keep everyone updated.
@Kate I can see both sides of this but for the safety of the site I am for this initiative. It will not solve everything but it will be another step towards making things better. There may be some technical solutions like have been suggested by others to help preserve anonymity in other ways besides guest accounts that still prevent disposable access with no accountability.
Thank you for taking this difficult step and I hope the admins/leaders will keep brainstorming ideas of how to satisfy the need that guest accounts filled while minimizing the negatives that are clearly associated with those accounts.
@PenguinPower31 there are some good reasons why its not safe for a lot of people to give out an email address to a website that provides emotional support and help there might be someone monitoring that persons email who does not want that person who is seeking help here to get emotional support or help from family or anyone else so there should at least be some way for people to have an alternate way to sign up besides email for people who are in dangerous situations who dont feel safe signing up to a help site with their email because their email isnt secure we cant allow these people who abuse the system to take away from so many i think everyone on 7cups i definately agree needs to be held accountable and banned if necessary if there is really no way for a guest user to be ip banned or if 7cups wont do that for some reason i hope at least they give people an alternative way to create an account if theyre afraid to give an email
This site just seems to be drifting further away from it's mission whenever I log in.
The one thing that drew me to this site when I was in need was the fact that I didn't need to create an account. There's a people who don't have the convenience of signing up for things due to multiple factors and that anonymous feature is what drew a lot of people to this site. If I'm being honest, if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have bothered. I was in an emotionally stressed mood and I wanted something quick, and this fit the bill. If I had to go now and make an account just to talk to someone about my problems, I would have found an alternative.
I really don't know what management does me thinking sometimes. Yes, it would help curb the trolling situation but what's stopping them from just creating an account and doing the exact same thing? It's not that difficult to create an email address, and there are numerous providers out there to choose from so that excuse doesn't cut it. Honestly, I feel that they're just trying to increase their member count no offense.
I don't even know what's the point of giving my opinion or "feedback" because y'all really not going to listen to it anyway. It's not hard to see that you keep replying to posts that agree with your decision (that has already been made and nothing's going to change it like most things around here). Like, you don't even acknowledge the others replies here.
Sigh, I'm tired, moody, and stressed and this is just made it worse. So much so that I don't even feeling like sticking around to talk to anyone today so I'm just going back to bad and sleep it off. At the rate we're going at, we're going to be a online therapist office where we have to be screened before we can get help.
"100% CONFIDENTIAL: Remain 100% anonymous. No one will ever know who you are—not even your listeners or therapists."
That should be the most important thing for those you want to help, right?
Maybe it is not best idea to remove the guest accounts altogether when the abuse issue can probably be solved by providing further training to listeners regarding trolling and how to spot and what to do if a guest account is being abusive. I can see this more as a training and systems issue than a "guest account" issue
