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Adult females are not GIRLS!

User Profile: AffyAvo
AffyAvo May 21st, 2016

I'm tired of seeing this. It's bad enough in real life but I would expect more from a support site.

I am not a girl.

I am a woman.

Referring to an adult female as a girl is dismissive, sexist and patronizing.

'Getting with a girl' if you are an adult is illegal for many situations in many places in the world.

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User Profile: SheKnowsHope
SheKnowsHope May 21st, 2016

I can understand how your personal experience can change your perception of the word. You refer to the terms "girl" and "boy" in terms of age. Where as most people refer to the term girl and boy in terms of gender solely, regardless of age. It seems it may be limited to elder adults who are often reffered to as lady and gentlemen. However all these terms simply refer to gender. It may help to think of it in these terms if you begin to feel uncomfortable if someone refers to you as "girl." It isn't because they view you as a child or young, just simply that you are female. It could help to be understanding of that as well, or take that into consideration.

3 replies
User Profile: AffyAvo
AffyAvo OP May 21st, 2016

@SheKnowsHope It's been my experience that most of these people wouldn't refer to themselves as a boy, or adult males as boys. There is often a sexist sentiment behind it;. the lack of respect for women.

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User Profile: Nightfurylover
Nightfurylover May 21st, 2016

To me, a girl is a very young female that is not yet matured both physically and mentally.

A young lady is A female who is transitioning from girlhood into womanhood and learning how to deal with these changes.

A woman is a older female who successfully learns and embraces her sexuality and is physically and mentally matured into both adulthood and womanhood and has the ability to withstand pain when on her menstrual cycle.

Some of the women I know HATE it when I call them girls as well because to them it's very insulting. They went through painful physical changes to get to woman hood and you telling them "girls" is very disrespectful to their maturity.

However SOME women might feel different about being called a "girl". That they don't mind it at all.

1 reply
User Profile: Phthalo
Phthalo May 23rd, 2016

@Nightfurylover As a female who has not and will never physically mature 100% in the eyes of the world, I have accepted that I am not a real woman. So I guess I'm a girl...or something.

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User Profile: SheKnowsHope
SheKnowsHope May 21st, 2016

@KindListening I definitely agree with your statement. @AffyAvo I can see why you'd feel it is offensive. Perhaps from personal experience in whichever setting you are in, you could definitely read it as sexist, meanwhile I don't think people mean it to be offensive where I am. However, it can also be because we are so used to it, we don't see it that way when it may actually be. It is definitely something to think about and look further into!

2 replies
May 21st, 2016

@SheKnowsHope @AffyAvo I remember my grandmother used to refer to my sister and I as "her girls". It was a term of endearment and I still remember looking back very fondly at those memories. It's a bit irrelevant to this discussion but it made me think of my grandmother. smiley

I think older people do tend to refer to women as "girls" or "ladies". However, I think in situations where it is expressed that someone finds it offensive, it should be respected, regardless of age. When it is not, I think there lies the problem.

1 reply
User Profile: AffyAvo
AffyAvo OP May 26th, 2016

@KindListening I agree there are times when it's not done in a degrading way. Typically if the genders are reversed, boys would be used fairly equally in those cases.

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User Profile: SheKnowsHope
SheKnowsHope May 21st, 2016

@KindListening Oh yes! Definitely just like I sometimes refer to my friends as "my girls." You are right if someone asks not to be called girl, that should be respected.

User Profile: squib
squib May 22nd, 2016

@AffyAvo My gut feeling is with you, and I don't know your age... but in the US, in my experience, I've found this to be almost a generational thing. When I was a college undergraduate this was a sore spot with the young women I knew; they were very keen on NOT being called girls for all the reasons you mention. But in teaching college I've found it almost reversed - it seems many young women have the opposite preference for reasons I can only speculate on (I have what I consider plausible speculations, but they don't really matter).

My own rule is generally to refer to females 18 and over as women, or maybe young women. If nothing else, even if they prefer to be called girls, it generally causes less friction than making the opposite error, which is generally causes more offense. I also don't view it as my place to tell anyone which term they ought to prefer, but to keep in my mind the fact that even if they call themselves "girls" I need to treat them as grown-ups with the level of maturity they actually possess and with the respect they deserve.

2 replies
User Profile: AffyAvo
AffyAvo OP May 26th, 2016

@squib I wish there were more people in the world who thought in a similar manner to you! Respect is pretty much what it boils down to.

1 reply
User Profile: squib
squib May 26th, 2016

@AffyAvo Treating people of all ages, etc. with respect in all situations is a mighty helpful rule of thumb :)

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User Profile: Anomalia
Anomalia May 22nd, 2016

@AffyAvo - This is definitely something that bothers me, too (and that I think I am occasionally guilty of). I do know some who use girls and boys both to refer to adults, in which case it doesn't bother me, but I do agree that far more often, it seems people refer to men and girls, which is dismissive and patronizing, as you said!

User Profile: Phthalo
Phthalo May 23rd, 2016

I know I'm the odd one out here but for personal reasons I actually would rather be called a girl than a woman, since "woman" inlcudes certain standards that I will never live up to. And I'm tired of wanting to, to be honest...I'm sick of feeling inadequate.

User Profile: Laura
Laura May 23rd, 2016

@AffyAvo

so true! I have often had to correct people who call me a "girl."

Well said

User Profile: live4logan
live4logan May 24th, 2016

@AffyAvo

First I am female. In my opinion I really dont care if I am called woman, girl, or even lady, sometimes. There are far more offensive and derogatory things to be called. Women to me is actually a sign of maturity and has nothing to do with age, kind of what you say and do kind of thing.

But how about we switch to facts. As defined by websters, a girl is either a female from birth to adult hood or an unwed female orva daughter. There was one other definition, female servant, which is the only way it was termed offensive. *paraphrased*

So based on definition, all women are girls but not all girls are women.

User Profile: Phthalo
Phthalo May 26th, 2016

Argh, the more I get notifications about this the more frustrated I get lol. I AM NOT A REAL WOMAN! And I'm ok with that fact now. It doesn't have the bad connotation that it used to. ...Not that I matter or anything. Just saying I hate it when people assume or generalize. Going around telling people I'm a "woman" sets people up to be disappointed/decieved because of lack of proper body and proper personality/confidence/social skills.

5 replies
May 26th, 2016

@Phthalo Hey, Phthalo! I just wanted to let you know that you can unsubscribe from a feed, by clicking "unsubscribe" by the upper right part of the forum thread. That way you won't keep receiving updates on a forum thread that you don't want to be updated on anymore. Not sure if you already knew this or not. If you didn't, I hope this helps! smiley

User Profile: Anomalia
Anomalia May 26th, 2016

@Phthalo - I also want to say that I'm sorry this has been a tough conversation to follow. I can definitely understand how while for some people, the term girl feels disrespectful or dismissive, but equally for others, woman feels uncomfortable and hurtful. At the root of all of it, I think, is respect for each other and being willing to actually hear how people identify and accommodate that, rather than assuming that everyone is comfortable with either term inherently. *hugs*

User Profile: AffyAvo
AffyAvo OP May 26th, 2016

(No tag in case you don't wish to get that notification).

Sorry, in some cases a generalization makes the most sense, as it's going to be done one way or another. I don't at all mean to force a label on you that you don't identify with. This was about others labelling a large group of adult females as girls in a manner that I found to be respectful.

If you don't feel comfortable being labelled as a woman, I think that's ok and wouldn't use a label for someone once told they were uncomfortable with this. That comes down to respect too.

2 replies
User Profile: Phthalo
Phthalo May 26th, 2016

@AffyAvo Deep down I know you're right, I shouldn't be a special snowflake about it and I need to shut up for the benefit of the majority. This whole thing also reminds me of the non-binary gender debates. "No one cares who you identify as. You're a woman cuz we all said so!" I'm just bitter, I'm sorry...

1 reply
User Profile: AffyAvo
AffyAvo OP May 26th, 2016

@Phthalo That's not what I was trying to say. As I wrote this I was trying to be conscious of avoiding making any statements that would be dismissive of someone's identity. I disagree about the comment above about menstruation. Some biological females don't experience that, it doesn't make them non-woman. Someone who isn't cis-gendered and is an adult identifying as a female gets to be called a woman as well, if that's what they want.

If an adult female identifies as a girl and not a woman, I don't mean to include them in this statement.

If there was a better way I could have expressed my point while not forcing a label on people who don't want it, I'm open to hearing suggestions.

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