Why does a spouse have to make a marriage such a challenge?

@Spearman60

I am sorry your struggling I can hear the frustration in your post. It sounds similar to my own frustration. I've been married for almost 40 and I have to say each decade has it's challenges. It's really a challenge as we get to the stage of older than.

People change, jobs change, kids grow up, hormones change and not always in a good way. I've been experiencing some challenges plus I have a trauma background which adds to these challenges. I find if I change myself and my actions others around me have to change too. This doesn't always work though, it's difficult to change others if they don't want to.

I do see a therapist and it's helped alot. I think communication is key to success in relationships.

This is a great place to seek support with like minded people.

Your not alone in these challenges. I wish you the best . Maybe you can connect with a listener here. It might take more than one try but have faith. I have had good connections here and it helps alot.

Best always ABB

@Spearman60

Ah my dear friend no you are NOT alone........ and the answer is you are correct that ONE person should not be the only one to make the decision or move to do anything but i feel especially when it comes to intimacy....

so many people IMO are unhappy because they do not freely share " hey i am in the mood or not today" ...... in many a long term marriage it falls to the wayside as we are tired of watching for the third base coach to wave us in .....lol it only builds resentment and underlying anger that is simply foolish

many grow complacent and even something as simple as eating out is a chore ... what do you want? .........no what do you want ? .. back and forth no one wanting to speak up .... the lets list every possible scenario and we grow tired and hungry to the point we pick the least objectionable thing and instead of having and sharing a decent meal we have settled for yuk and just want it OVER with..........then the other person says why don't we eat out more ? .......... because i do not want to clean a crime scene.

I am not sure what causes that the worry or fear of an argument ........over something as simple as "i do not want pizza AGAIN " that instead......... we push off the decisions on our spouse and low and behold if you chose poorly you will NEVER hear the end of it ..... everything falls into a pattern what to watch on TV........... do we want to go see a movie or go somewhere ...........nope we sit and watch the person we married become someone we cannot escape and the depression grows like weeds.....

@toughTiger6481 and @Spearman60 wow, I don't envy your situations at all, although I'm living in a somewhat similar situation. I'm pretty sure my guy has some kind of emotionally immature disorder (as opposed to being a narcissist) so he expects EVERYTHING, won't ever admit fault, thinks the world revolves around him, throws tantrums, argues about everything, thinks he's never wrong, has a very short fuse, and always has to have his own way. Sounds like a two or three year old, right? The song "Goodbye Stranger" by Supertramp did him to a "T". It's exhausting.

But the reason I'm commenting isn't for that. I'm kind of in the flip side regarding intimacy, and I'm hoping maybe my situation may help shed some light and understanding, although it might not, either. In fact, it may not be anything like why you're experiencing what you are.

I would also like to stress in no way am I insinuating you've done anything similar for this reaction, or that you deserve the lack of interest being shown you. So please, please, please don't be insulted or take offense by my story.

But I NEVER initiate any kind of intimacy. In fact, I rarely am the first one to hug or even touch. But in my opinion, I'm completely justified.

When my guy and I were first together, the first time I tried to initiate sex, I was told "What do you think, that I can just perform whenever or wherever you want it?"

The second time I tried, I was much more physical, and he didn't respond at all, just kept doing what he'd been doing (watching TV or reading, I can't remember now) without any kind of reaction to what I was doing.

The third time, I suggested I do something to him. Granted, it was in a public place, but we'd done things before in places more public than what I suggested, and we'd also have pretty much been completely hidden. At least what I would have done would have been. He flat out refused, something I thought guys would never! 🤭

There's more, which has just cemented my stance of never initiating it ever again. But he asked me once why I never do, and I told him, "I give everything three chances. But if those three instances fail for whatever reason (service or food at a restaurant, someone spilling what I told them in confidence, someone lying to me, whatever) I just won't be the one to let it happen again. Three times I tried, two of them out of my comfort level, and not only were my attempts rebuked, you didn't even seem to acknowledge my efforts. I'll try something three times but if none of them work, I quit trying. Period."

I have extreme issues with fear of rejection and abandonment. Whether or not he meant to reject me isn't at issue. The fact is the the rejection I felt was insurmountable. It had never happened to me before, yet I kept trying. After the third time of my attempts being shut down, I shut down. Not only did I feel the sear (no way was it a measly sting) of rejection, it magnified (in my mind) the possibility of being abandoned. All tough stuff for me to deal with. I'm surprised we're still together, to be honest. That hurt me to no end. I'm still not completely over it, and it's been 10 years almost. However, don't get me wrong, I'm more than a willing participant, and I will take it, not leave it! 😉

Emotional scars are really hard to heal. Maybe your spouse has or had some kind of trauma that impacts the ability to show what intimacy means to her. Or maybe there's a self-esteem or confidence issue going on. Or maybe she's just a callous, uncaring, or narcissistic ***. (Sorry, just had to include the alternative).

I certainly don't have the answers. Just trying to plant the seed of different possibilities. Of course, please understand that doesn't mean I condone the situation or the callousness with which she acts. It's just sometimes people put up walls that look a lot different than what they're truly made from. And if her family is generally like that, it might be the only way she learned how to treat people.

I so feel for you, no one deserves that kind of treatment. Here's another seed...my ex and I grew apart after 30 years, and one day I decided I was too old to have nevern been happy, not really. And that if I wanted to experience happiness, and live happily, I needed to do something about it. Then.

I decided to walk and leave everything but the shirt on my back. I was 52.

Best of luck to you, and I hope being here and talking helps remove any feelings you may have about being to blame. I know it would be extremely hard for me not to wonder what was wrong with me, for the person who supposedly loves me, to act like that.

In fact, I still wonder.

🐻

With much respect for all written, I can humbly say two things;

First: As it is somehow hard to openly fully nonrestrictedly talk about exactly how you feel and think about things that frustrate you, it is very helpful to write them. Just leaving a written note or even sending a letter or a text message, it really helps you articulate all aspect of your feelings and letting him/her know what would you want instead, honestly. It is just easier to write what you originally would want to talk.

Second: To ask whatever you want, also asking it from God

( i respect all beliefs and non beliefs, belief is just a personal choice, I prefer Islam, you prefer yours, total respect and understanding) Well, praying soothes so much, because you feel that , someone cares and listens to you, and if God gives me what i want, it is superb, if He didn't give ,that means, there must be a good reason for it because He always wishes the best for his tired,broken,weak,lovely creatures. And He will compensate it more superbly eternally in the afterlife.

@Spearman60

Hi Spearman! 😊❤️ Thank you for your forum post and having the courage to come forward and share! I know sometimes it can take a lot of courage to do so and maybe even frustration at times, at your "wits end" kind of thing to reach out for support. I hear you! So, in an effort to be of help.......

It sounds as if there is a great deal of frustration as well as questioning around the "make the first move concept" and it appears to possibly be a trait that is shared by your wife with her extended family members. Aha! Now we are really getting some where! I commend you for noticing what could be a pattern.

What are your expectations with all of them? To change each and every one of them after a life time of being this way? Over the span of 40 years, I imagine you have seen a great bit of this.

Making the first move.......

I will say that etiquette states that the person that is the one entering the room, within a gathering, should be the first person to speak and greet others. Perhaps this is something that they all know and are sitting on their side having certain expectations of you as well? Is this a battle of wills now on your part that starts at the very inception of a family gathering when first walking into a room? This could be a certain mindset that can carry over, set the tone and really spread feelings of animosity from the "get go".

Making the first move......

Physical intimacy can be different for all people. Sometimes for anyone and maybe for some women especially, they can be quite timid with initiating sexual intimacy. You have said that she is an introvert. Well, what are your expectations of someone that you already know, full and well that is quite introverted?

Society, in the past has had certain "standards" placed on women (and it's a double standard). Some women can be bashful and quite timid in the area of initiating a sexual encounter as their entire life time they have been told that they should be docile, not be sexual beings, not have biological urges lest they come across as appearing quite whorish. This can be incredibly ingrained. She may have wants and needs as well but because of what society has "told her" she may not be able to ever initiate sex.

So, my question is.....do you want to be right and have it your way or would you like to be happy? It doesn't sound as if your wife is "with holding" from you. And was this even a quality that you first saw value in when you first asked her to marry you? That perhaps she was the "good girl" and quite reserved in that area?

What do you mean by her being "passive aggressive"? That certainly has become quite the "buzz word" in the media and sometimes we as lay people that may not have degrees in Psychology, take that label, run with it, and put it on to others if we are simply unhappy with their behavior. Passive Aggressive is a very hard thing to deal with in a relationship. That behavior is mean spirited, intentional, targeted and creating scenarios to make you fail. Traps set up with out your knowledge to make your life miserable and is incredibly abusive. There is a difference.

I understand your feelings of not feeling wanted or accepted. I understand that you want to feel warmly received and embraced. The ways that others treat us can make us feel this way. Others not initiating can certainly do that to us. It's a terrible feeling to feel that way. I do see what you are saying!

I'm wondering if there may be a great deal of value in seeing the other side and that the behavior of others has been years in the making? That maybe it's not intentional but just highly ingrained even before you came along? Sometimes being the person you wish they would be can really help matters. I wonder if by doing so, things might turn around?

I have a great analogy for you. Not sure if you have ever "hunted". I have not, but I have met people that do. So, the wise hunter for deer, will create a tree stand. They will sit high above in a tree. Sit and wait for hours and hours, patiently for a deer to come into sight. Might not happen that day, might not happen the next. Might take a month. But they sit patiently. They don't run through the forest, yelling with hands over their heads demanding that a deer come to them and do what they want. They don't scream at the deer, demanding that the deer change it's natural inclination which is being a bit reclusive and skittish.

Some people even decide to no longer "hunt" the deer. They will set out what are called "salt blocks" for them on the back of their property for the deer to come, safely and just enjoy what is offered. They decide to be the "giver" in the situation. To no longer chase and want from the deer but to give instead. The deer come freely then and are happy to just enjoy.

Again, thank you for your forum post. I understand you have needs also. Many ways to get them met. 😊

*high fives* 😊 and *hugs* ❤️

@Spearman60

Thank you for letting us know we are not alone.
I too have had similar feelings in a 2 decade relationship

@Spearman60 My husband probably feels the same about me. I'm always afraid he will leave me. We've been together 20 years.

I always thought that women are taught to be loving and nuturers and peacemakers. However, it is a different world and women need to be able to speak for themselves. I think as women get older, they are much better at voicing options in a healthy constructive manner. I took both conflict resolution and assertiveness training but consider culture, family beliefs, and world view when applying those principles.I hope that helps some.

I woke up early this morning thinking about this thread and so I wanted to share this...
One of the most discouraging aspects of our marriage is the wife's lack of support and comfort when I need it the most. For an example, if I come home from a bad or troublesome day, her reaction to me is to shy away from me and don't ask or say anything. Over the years, I seldom ever get the help and support that I need from her.
I think what women like my wife fail to see is that in a marital relationship, one of the husband's basic needs is affirmation. Any wife that gives that kind of support, you'll find a husband who is on top of the world, in most cases anyway. Any time I'm feeling down and out, discouraged, or even depressed, I get little to no comfort from her whatsoever. I realize though that her demanding retail job takes a lot out of her, even sucks the life out of her, so I try to give that consideration. However, she passes up nearly every opportunity to be there for me when I need her the most. This is also the case in our physical relationship.
Now on the other hand, when she, on those rare occasions, she needs me in that aspect, I will take time to listen to her. But one thing I learned over the years with women is this... husbands, when they come to talk, most of the time, they only want conversation. It's in our manly nature to want to "fix" everything, so we interupt and start dishing out answers and solutions. But I find that most of the time, answers is not what women are seeking when they come to us. It's just conversation. Women, would you agree?
Because of what I've shared here, I'm living a lonely marital life. It's been this way for many years. I'm so overwhelmed with discouragement in this that I just wished I could just get out of this marriage sometimes and be with someone where we could effectively meet one another's needs. I just want to be happy.
For the past 3 years, we haven't even slept together. Partly due to her work schedule. But mostly because of so much frustration I have, I just can't sleep with her right now. I sleep more soundly in the other bedroom. I find myself wanting to be alone and away from her. And we haven't been "physical" with one another for over 2 years now. She's seldom takes and interest in that. Again, I'm sure it's due to her job situation, and I get that. I never make demands on her. She comes up and asks what I want for supper, I often tell her not to worry about it, knowing how exhausted she is at the end of the day.
I'm really not a hard person to get alone with. I have a genuine caring personality towards others. But I get really frustrated with people, including my wife, do not reciprocate that back to me.
Anyway, I could go on, but if I make this too long, people won't read it... :-)

This thread is so informative and it's amazing to see so many with similarities. It helps to know I'm not alone. I'm sorry to see it though. @Spearman60

In my situation I have tried to write letters to my spouse about what I need . I tried for 3 years to get my point across but I've given up . I still am not getting what I need from this relationship. I blame myself somewhat because for 30+ years I let him have it all and I mean all his way. I blame myself in some ways. I did this because I came from a violent trauma background and I always sacrifice to keep the peace and stay safe at home in jobs and friendships etc.( he's a safe person I am messed up from the horrible childhood trauma). I am in therapy. He's a good gentle guy but he doesn't hear me. I want what I missed out on , I want deep connection and deep intimacy. It took alot for me to write those letters and bear my soul , I was sweating with nervous energy handing them to him. I'm so afraid of judgement from him. I'm a little ( mmm alot) unconventional and he's very old fashioned. He loves me and is a great Dad . But I'm not getting what I need. I've come to the conclusion he's just not able to comply for whatever reason. Yes I am still sacrificing. I don't want to give up on this relationship and throw 40 years away.....but I'm sad I will leave this life unfulfilled. We are still intimate but it's not satisfying for me, he raves about it because he's satisfied. It is so frustrating.

Blaming myself for settling and not asking right away for what I need in all aspects of my life. All because I have so much fear.

Thx

Best

ABB