[Renamed: DID / Trauma Group Support Discussion]
[text removed at author request by Anomalia; thread maintained to preserve discussion below]
DID has always had sessions separate of trauma support, no one is taking over anything. Please be mindful that how you would talk to an adult situations might not be the way you approach a teen, wording is SO SO SO important when talking to teens and really on an emotional support site in general. With that being said I feel like we should be mindful and encourage of things that are being put into effort that the teens are working with, they deserve the same opportunities that the adult side have had.
Believe it or not DID sessions have been outside of trauma for along time and I used to lead them on the adult side about a year ago. Just because something is related to truama doesn't mean that trauma has to "own" that topic, look at borderline personality disorder. It's a disorder that is commonly associated with trauma as well and it's on it's own and not in trauma. 
If DID sessions are already written why write more? Why not ask someone like Kate of you can add DID sessions that are already written to your session plan? Why is this brought up every single time there is a post about DID sessions?
@InspiringLee Anxiety can be trauma related too but it is its own topic thats a great point to consider here lee and i do remember DID being a completly seperate team
@CaringBrit
Anxiety can be caused by many things. Dissociative Identity Disorder is ONLY CAUSED as a DIRECT. RESULT. of trauma. Prolonged and severe trauma. That is the ONLY way that someone can have DID. You cannot have DID without having been subjected to basically torture. Please refer to the DSM entry shared in the post at the end of this thread (by someone with DID).
Ok we had this argument on the adult side we not now starting it for the teen side too. I am so disapointed I go on self care for 5 days on family camping trip, and I have 25 pms of people upset because of feeling attacked by supposed Trauma team that goes further than any team to support people. How is this supporting people? [edited by Anomalia for unsupportive content]
Why can you all just not go through the right channels? Why involve yourselves if you do not know what is fully happening / or speaking to @Kate or @Laura first.
I have tried to stay friendly, professional and supportive but this is going too far.
Right now I am not seeing the supportive team you say you are !. How we are seen goes a long way when people looking for supporting and people feeling attacked or being jumped on first chance trauma team gets is not supportive. Also a sorry goes a long way, we all lash out when we angry or upset - however that is no excuse to bully others or accuse them. (edited by fluffyunicorns84 as replied in angry manner apologies) Lets try stay constructive and not attack when replying please. I will speak with Kate when she back to work tomorrow and see what we can do to sort this out overall asap.
I am sorry to see what this thread has become. I look forward to seeing the fruit of this seed. I know any DID sessions, no matter what the team is called or what subcommunity it is in, will be helpful to many!
Posting this again.
Due to the ongoing lack of professionalism and hurtfulness displayed towards individuals and the community processes in this thread, the community management team will no longer be replying in this thread. We are happy to have a professional conversation, where we discuss the specific problems, when the problems are clearly layed out (as I requested earlier this week).
Until then, we are unable to participate. If you would like to continue to argue and go back and forth, I ask you to do so with caution. Warnings have been given out and we will take more action as needed to ensure the partipants of this thread act in a supportive, uplifting and professional way towards all of our incredible volunteers and community management staff.
Thank you.
@Kate Thank you Kate! 
I'd like you guys to remember if you have any questions or concerns bout the future of DID under Support+ please reach out to one of the leaders. We can get it sorted out, and help you feel more comfortable going forward.
I would like to draw everyones attention to this thread posted by @Kate back in January.
- Quoted directly -
Forgive me for getting technical for a second-- According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder, Fifth Edition (DSM-5) "Dissociative Identity Disorder is caused by ‘overwhelming experiences, traumatic events, and/or abuse occurring in childhood.
Because trauma is the root cause of DID, there has been some confusion as to whether DID as a whole will fall under the Trauma Team or remain in the Support + Team.
Heres the short answer:
- DID is a huge subject and obviously of interest to a lot of you. Because most people with DID have a mix of dissociative and posttraumatic symptoms, as well as non-trauma related symptoms, DID will be part of both the Trauma Community as well as its own team within Support +.
- Support sessions and discussions related to trauma and the cause of DID, will be run through the Trauma Community.
- Support sessions and discussions that are more broad (such as DID and Stigma, DID in Relationships, etc) will be run with the Support + Team.
- If there continues to be a high level of interest and engagement, DID will be considered for being its own subcommunity team in the future.
For more info on getting involved with the Trauma Subcommunity, please contact @dancingRainbow45.
For more info on getting involved with Support +, please contact @beYOUtywithin.
- End quote -
read it here for yourself if you wish: https://www.7cups.com/forum/GroupSupportChatRooms_140/KatesCave_1395/DissociativeIdentityDisorderSupportSessions_107718/1/#1332502
I was working with BeYou and Rain to write DID sessions, not only support sessions but I made videos, turned up to trauma support sessions to input on DID aspect were possible, Ive written articles in the trauma newsletter, posted many times in the forum and have built relationship with other DIDers and championed inclusion and acceptance all over cups where ever I can.
I wrote some sessions with BeYou and have been working in the background with many months. Now I come on this thread and see yet another divergence from what was publically agreed upon, that all my work over the last few months is not going to be taken out of Trauma and I still have absolutely no understanding as to why.
In the past BeYou and JoyCS ran sessions as part of Support+ before the trauma sub com was established, while helpful and very useful for linking up with other DIDers the support was mostly aimed at a surface level, what is DID, ending stigma, text book level topics like what are alters, systems etc… Great for newly diagnosed people. What was missing was the meat and potatoes. The trauma behind why DID is present, the how to of recovery, daily living with multiple parts of you and staying safe. Thats what I was working towards. If you take trauma out of any of those areas you wont meet the needs on DIDers. I can say that with all confidence, because I have DID and I have been in therapy long enough to have learnt what helps. Not to mention the countless hours of personal research I have put into understanding DID and studying common occurrences for others with DID to make sure that I have an unbias view of how DID might present in various people.
When everyone else seemed to walk away from the topic I stuck with it, so did Rain by running the workbook group. Now to see that there is another divisive move to remove DID from the trauma community I can honestly say this is 1. Not in the best interest of anyone with DID and 2. a lot of DID symptoms cross over with PTSD and some PTSD symptoms with dissociation 3. Is a personal slap in the face after all the work and effort myself and my team have invested.
I know teen support hasnt been at the level we wanted it to be, its because working in trauma is hard, just to get on the team is a lot of effort. Most people dont stick it out for the long haul and that has been my personal concern for DID support. We need a deep level of understanding, consistent people to build a healthy trust attachment with. Im gutted that its now not going to happen and Im truly sorry to every DIDer on this site.
@LifeIsMyCanvas
Hi canvas! Thank you for your thoughtful post. I know you and the trauma team have worked very hard on creating materials for trauma victims and those suffering from did as well. No one disputes the level of care you all show your community. I'd like to zoom bank for a minute though.
You mentioned the level of teen support has been less than desireable due to lack of interest. Since there is interest from the teen support plus team, do you think there's a way to combine the efforts to reach the common goal of offering more support to teens with did? I deeply apologize since i know this has been mentioned somewhere in the 1000 odd posts on this topic already, but how would you recommend the two groups moving forward to achieve this common goal? Disregarding what has happened in the past, i want us to try to move forward in a way that is beneficial for everyone.
@MonBon
I wanted to respond to you but I feel very cautious given the events that have happened and my team mates being removed etc… Please know I do so in the best interest of members, incl teens and this is not a criticism but observation of the situation to date.
Firstly Id like to say that the point I made was regarding not having the appropriate resources to do the teen support within the trauma sub com at this present time. It was never a lack of interest on our part. Many of us are very passionate about the teen community. It is just unfortunate that it has not been able to progress as first intended due to Kristen being on long term self care and we are not sure when she will be back.
I wanted to share some context behind my opinions:
My understanding was that Support Plus was created to build sub communities that did not exist already. As such, historically I can see it made sense for them the run DID sessions as a focused topic. When the trauma sub com was set up the DID forums moved under trauma and the trauma team began offering sessions within their main weekly sessions.
About 6 months ago it came up that DID may have its own community and I raised my concerns then about separating DID from trauma.
My issues are as follows:
- DID occurs because of childhood abuse before age 5, as well as insecure attachments in childhood.
- DID is not the only Dissociative Disorder, and PTSD has a big overlap as it also includes dissociation. DID and the other Dissociative disorders overlap with PTSD symptoms such as Hyper and Hypo arousal states.
- Due to attachment issues, those with Dissociative disorders need consistent attachment figures in order to feel safe. Thats why it is more important in my eyes to have them included in the trauma family ethos we have built. Daily check ins, forum threads, focused workbook groups and discussions.
- The wrong offering of support would do more damage and cause more trauma to the vulnerable. When thinking about teens that is another whole level of scariness to me as they are infinitely more vulnerable than adults because of the biological stages of brain development.
Now returning to the specifics about which team offers support. My observations are as follows:
- Having sessions run by a different team within a sub com causes a potential disjoint between those supporting teens in the forum and those supporting teens in discussions. In addition there is a lot of content in the adult areas of the forum, such as the newsletter that could benefit teens which are offered by the trauma sub com. In my opinion taking DID away from other support for dissociative disorders and PTSD is divisive, counter productive to members needs and potentially re-traumatising due to potential attachment issues.
- Having had discussions with support plus long before I joined the trauma team, I was happy to have the ability to meet other DID people. However they never covered trauma or attachment issues and therefore fell short of what is needed. They also seemed to be more attended by listeners seeking to understand DID rather than support for those with DID and this distracted sessions from members needs. Something which the trauma sub com has established boundaries to deal with in their discussions particularly well. The support + sessions were helpful however for understanding the diagnosis and talking about stigma.
-Sessions run by Support Plus in the past did not have the support structure outside sessions to deal with the emotional ‘fall out from members opening up their wounds to start the healing process. Not having a support structure outside of the discussions to deal with this is unsafe and potentially harmful.
-Then there was a second attempt at DID sessions, but the leaders kept at the surface level diagnostic stuff and also inconsistently showed up for sessions. I know that this triggered the attachment issues and frustration feelings for me, I can imagine this would be more so for teens due to the brains level of development for that age group.
So when I approached both Trauma and Support Plus to work on DID sessions I was seeking to stop this from happening in my own little way, and to help write content for the forums to fill the gaps till the sessions could be written and people trained to deliver them. This is why I agreed to write awareness type sessions with Support Plus and more in depth sessions with the Trauma team. Unfortunately communication broke down and I was told that Support Plus arent doing DID any more and if I wanted to do them, go join the Trauma team. Which I did, and I thought that this was the final outcome/decision. Now the topic has come around again for teens and I feel even more strongly that its a bad idea to separate DID from dissociative disorders, PTSD and other trauma topics. Esp given at some point those teens will age up and move over to the adults side of things in the Trauma sub com and will have to get used to a whole new set of people.
It's not just about who is able to offer support now, but how this level of support will be maintained moving forward in a way that is both strategic for 7cups and safe/healing for members. Clinically DID fits into trauma; structurally it fits in trauma from an outside of discussions, support perspective. So why take it into a new area? Especially as that area doesnt have the same training, rules of engagement or application process. Now if people are not willing to join via this established safety process, I would have to ask why? I would be happy to listen to any concerns and have a clinically based discussion on what is the right level of safety/commitment/boundaries and safe guarding needed to deliver the right level of care to members.
I suggest that the first step would be to go through concerns on each side with someone who is trained in dissociative disorders/trauma/attachment issues and seek advice from professionals. Perhaps the therapist liaisons? I know that the Trauma team submitted a document outlaying concerns to Laura and requested to meet and discuss these but we have not had a response. Ive tried to keep forum posts factual but unfortunately threads are shut down and left without response. Im finding it very difficult to move forward or even decide if I wish to continue contributing in the same way. Ive also tried attending sub com leaders meetings but have not been able to be heard/reach a resolution in those meetings either.
Sorry for the long post but I wanted to make sure I was clear as there have been so many misunderstandings on this matter. I do also think that if this is going to get resolved the discussion has to remain clinically based on facts and mediated by a party that is not currently invloved in the conflict (aka therapist liason).
@LifeIsMyCanvas - Thank you for your post - I think this is very clearly and professionally laid out and super helpful in understanding some of the concerns and history here. I can't respond to the specifics because I know very little about DID (and frankly, about group support at 7 Cups), but wanted to note that I had read this and thought it was very well written :)
@LifeIsMyCanvas
It is understandable to be cautious, and I am very sorry for the events that have led you to require to need to do so. I am appreciative of your insight and observation!
I am definitely aware that the lack of teen support sessions was not a question of interest. I remember very clearly the teen trauma community that was run under Kristen, but as she is not here the situation remains that teens do not have as many sessions as they'd like right now. Regardless of the efforts trauma has put forth, there is a notable impact on the teens who have been pushing for trauma sessions and did sessions. I do thank you for providing this context though as I think people are prone to assuming a lack of activity equates to a lack of interest or care when there could be other factors at play.
I do not actually know of the current or original purpose of support plus as I focus mostly on the forums, so I apologize for not being to comment on this part. What I can say is that if there is a team with the resources to run these sessions and there is a clear need for these sessions, I think the original purpose of the team is more semantic than actually focusing on how we can reach our goal of "more quality support sessions for teens." I do not discount your question though and I hope that someone more group support oriented such as @Kate or @fluffyunicorns84 or @AnyaS maybe be able to respond to that portion.
I am a little concerned by the language of "separating DID from Trauma." I don't see these sessions as trying to disassociate DID from trauma. As you and a few others have mentioned, DID is very closely related to trauma. I cannot think of a perfect analogue so bear with me, but I would not associate a session with the topic "panic attacks" as trying to separate the topic from anxiety or even if we started a category focused only on panic attacks as trying to disassociate the two. Often time if a topic gets enough interest, we will separate it out and let it have a team focused more closely on the specific topic (i.e. panic attacks or DID) while keeping the original parent category (i.e. anxiety or traumatic experiences).
I do think your concerns on correct information are valid and should be taken into account! Across the site we want all of our volunteers to give correct information. I also agree with you greatly on the point of consistency. One of the biggest selling points for subcommunities in my opinion is the increased ability to offer consistent support. Someone asking a question in the feed, forums, and group support rooms should be able to get the same answer and consistent support. On that note, I feel that collaboration and communication between users and teams is the key to consistency.
Attachment is a great and valid point, and one we should consider when discussing the idea of splitting out a category into its own team. I do wonder if the notion that we can't be close with people from another community is a different problem altogether?
You have brought up great points and I thank you so much for responding! I definitely agree that the level of support is important, which is why I'm framing all of my questions with "how do we reach the goal of more quality support sessions for teens?" Is there a way to combine the resources of the support+ team with the high quality resources and support the trauma community has worked so hard to acheive? Is there a reason that transitioning between communities or age groups within a topic has to be jarring just because it has different people leading it? Is there a way to communicate and collaborate to provide consistent support?
I would absolutely love to hear any concerns and have a clinically based discussion on what is the right level of safety/commitment/boundaries and safe guarding needed to deliver the right level of care to members. I do wonder though - is this maybe a more site wide concern? Are all of our teams lacking in this area? Maybe we need to tune up all listener and leader training programs.
As for next steps, I am currently trying to do this part: "go through concerns on each side." I think you bring up an interesting point about discussing with a professional such as a therapist liaison, but I will bring up this counter point: 7 Cups is designed so that anyone can support anyone else on any topic without any sort of professional training. In theory, the active listening tenants of empathy, validation, and reflection are the only things we are supposed to be doing. Does extra information and training help? Of course it does! But we are not here to be professionals so I would suggest being wary of relying on professional advice for how we should be supporting members.
I do apologize again for the miscommunication issues and am doing my best to prevent threads being shut down, but agree with the sentiment that presently it is difficult to find a way to move forward. I am doing my best though and appreciate your professional discourse with me as we try to brainstorm this issue. It is okay that is long, as it very thorough and clear :)
@MonBon
I think the key factor here is that, if you lack knowledge of this particular subject, your ignorance can cause serious damage to the person you
@BeeLeigh this is why i dont do DID chat just because im not very familiar and feel i lack the proper knowledge on this particular topic i wouldnt know what to say to this particular topic its same with ED i feel that one needs knowledge training too
@CaringBrit
Sorry, saw this earlier and then it got lost in the notifications! Trauma is my community, its my psych concentration in school, and Ive been doing research in the field for years, but even still there are some things I dont feel like Im personally equipped to respond to, so Ill give an upvote and message someone else that I think would be good for it. I think that we all have different strengths, and when we can put those to work together, thats how you get a strong community. But even the best intentions can have disastrous effects if the person who has them doesnt know what theyre doing. Too many people seem to be incapable of recognizing their weaknesses. I get what Mon said about us being volunteers and not trained professionals, but there are actually quite a few trained professionals in Trauma. Thats just another part of what makes this whole situation so frustrating. 😕🤷🏼♀️
@BeeLeigh i get what your saying and definitely we all have our own Strengths and Weaknesses for sure my weaknesses are ED chats and DID BPD etc their are topics I just wouldn't go looking for as I feel I'm not equipped for them nor would it be fair on the member for not being so and me too we are just volunteers true it can feel very frustrating when we know we are just volunteers, not professionals but then a topic you strongly feel needs someone equipped to take on to do it is on your thoughts too
as for it getting lost in the notifications its fine Bee it happens :)
@ShawnEdgingtonLPC, can you please offer your professional opinion on this matter? We really want to make sure that what
@BeeLeigh
Hey since I cant pm i wanted to apologize for the other day. I misread the entire situation between you and brit x Im all for proper support when it comes to DID since my main regulars all have DID and my fiance has DID, too.
@SouthernFlame
Thank you, I really appreciate that :)
@BeeLeigh
You're welcome (:
@SouthernFlame that was super humble of you to admit you misread the situation Flame proud of you <3
@BeeLeigh
I do understand the part about how ignorance can be damaging, but a listener is not here to solve problems, cure illnesses, or honestly even give out information like a professional would do. From F.A.Q. "While many of our Active Listeners happen to be licensed professional counselors and therapists, they do not give medical or psychological advice during conversations" therefore no bad information or advice should be given. I know I said it above, but I feel it's important to iterate it again: information does help, but if the active listening tenants are insufficient then you are trying to give support 7 cups does not offer. However, I admire your passion and dedication for providing support that is both safe and high quality for our users.
Relating back to the issue at hand, what will happen if a couple individuals who run this from the trauma side decide to leave 7 cups? Are the trauma sessions supposed to stop? This is what has happened on the teen side. Kristen left and teen sessions stopped. This is not okay. We need to proactively recruit and train others in these skills and collaborate on training across the two trauma group support teams. We have people here in this thread who want to run these sessions. And we have people here in this thread who have developed training materials to do this effectively. What we need now is to help them run these sessions by collaborating with each other because not having sessions is an unrealistic option.
@MonBon
Regarding your first paragraph, please refer to Skylarks posts. Regarding your second paragraph, I still strongly feel that if something trauma related is going to be run, it should be done through Trauma, because we have more stringent requirements.
@BeeLeigh
Regarding my first paragraph, I had read sky's posts which is why I mentioned that if we are actually following active listening, no bad information will be given. However, I feel we are talking in circles and are ultimately disagreeing on the core purpose of 7 cups. This is not something I feel will be resolved nor does it help resolve the issue. So, moving on:
I know the trauma team has come up with an amazing onboarding system to provide safety and quality for their users, and it is definitely a process worth following. However, I think it's important to note that the teens did not think they were "going outside of [your team] to get around [your team's] process." As explained to them by @Kate and @fluffyUnicorns84 :
"The Support Team Leader is responsible for recruiting and onboarding new chatroom moderators and (or) support session leaders. When there is a new mod being trained and they choose X community, fluffy, Kate or someone else who is hosting the training contacts STL and let them know that a new person chose their community and ask if they are comfortable with this person. It's up to Support Team Leader to decide who is on the team, although they should always keep the CMLs updated why one or another decision was made when it comes to not accepting people to the team - ideally, they should discuss it with CMLs to make sure that everyone is on the same boat."
You are entitled to your opinion that the trauma process is the one we should be following, but they were not intentionally trying to evade the community's requirements. It is clear there has been some miscommunication on this process EDIT: Even I only recently learned that this was the process. END EDIT and there is definitely room for debate on which process should be followed. Unfortunately, I cannot personally decide which process we are following, but can give you information on how it is currently supposed to be functioning in other subcommunities. This is a work in progress and we will continue working through it. Thank you again for sharing all of your points ♥
@MonBon
In that regard, nothing was discussed with us. We just magically had someone new that none of us knew about on our leaderboard. Which is where all of this started, and was our first point being made. Throughout these discussions, others have twisted words and other subjects have been raised, but that was our point from the beginning. Also, when referencing Sky
@BeeLeigh
(is logging off so can only quickly respond)
I think the points about practice and theory being split is extremely on target here and promise that I've been making efforts to fix that, which is partly why I'm in here collecting feedback. Thank you for being honest as this helps me give feedback to the process
@MonBon Regarding Kristen leaving. I actively encouraged all our trauma team to apply to become ATLs so that we could engage with our teen side of our community more so and so we could get our teen sessions up and running once more. We were working on opening our open chat again and we were working on getting adult and teen DID sessions running. The problem was getting teen listeners onto the team to make this a reality. We submitted a document to management about safety concerns we had because tho we are a listening and support service, offering sessions on topics such as DID we need to be mindful about not making things worse and DID is a complex topic that does need to be done carefully because things can be made so much worse by people who are not knowledgable in the topic for the members and that is where the concern lies. Also no one should be running sessions alone. That is not good for the teens or the members. The same applies for the adults which is why in the trauma sub community no sessions are run without a mod and two co hosts present for support sessions. There are a number of reasons for this. The trauma community would love to run DID sessions which is a direct result of trauma. It cannot be seperated out from trauma and this was agreed in January by management when they said topics which overlapped trauma could be run but that DID would remain in the trauma sub community because it was clear it was a direct result of trauma, Its a bit like we support people who have eating disorders and self harm as ways of coping with trauma, but its not as a direct result of having gone through trauma because people can have eating disorders and self harm for a number of reasons and we would not take self harm and eating disorders from the eating disorder or self harm community. DID happens because the mind fragments because a child is subjected to severe and relenting trauma which usually involves disorganised attachment before the age of five. You cannot seperate it out from trauma. There is a whole spectrum of dissociation that someone may experience and DID is at one end of that spectrum. But if sessions are offered its about doing it correctly to limit the damage that could occur to the members. There is no reason why teens cant do sessions but its about doing it correctly. But if teens want to do sessions then why not join a community that needs to grow, that needs teens on their leadership, that wants to develop their teen side, that was running teen sessions, rather than cause this divide and conflict and work with a team to build a community rather than break it down. Work in conjunction with experience and build the teen side and then transition to the adult side when old enough. Abide by the same rules and guidelines and be on the same team. All of this is just causing conflict and making people feel used and silenced the very opposite of what this community should be about.
Onboarding, we have had an onboarding process for two years now, where people have to be active for 3 weeks before applying no matter what role they take on, then they apply, once approved they are welcomed onto the team if they agree to training, team meetings, oath etc. If they wish to run sessions, if they are less experienced they can shadow more experienced session leaders. Once confident, a day and time is set where a session is offered to our members, where a mod and co host/two co hosts run a support session for our members per week. We try to keep this time and day consistent and regular with the same people to provide reliability and consistency for our members. This is how we have always done our onboarding process for the last two years which was set up with Kristen and I. It has never been a problem until now. The team do the training as a group because working as a team and group dynamics is important and where possible we always hold the training together as a team but due to time zones sometimes we have had to give people the training individually but we try to avoid this.
@Rain45
Its awesome to have you reply and give some insight, some issues still come to my mind about what is said about adult vs teens as I feel the process of building teen support team was never adeered to until couple teens approached kate about leading teen side discussions on trauma or did. However moving forward I think the next step really would be for the training to be shared with us as I know as been asked by admin and others so that we can move forward in working out the setup and structure of subcommunities from now. As I have said numerous times before if trauma training ensures safety of members mroe than our current systems then surely we owe it to all our members not just trauma and work out overall system that suits all.
@fluffyUnicorns84 I think there are other issues at the heart of things, fluffy that need addressing. There are issues raised by canvas and others, myself, that are at the crux of things and safety issues that have not been addressed. We are all trying to find ways forward and we will try and meet with management at some point to move forward and put together an agenda.
In addtion, our team have felt silenced, harrassed, bullied, punished, and more. They have been left feeling deflated, shunned, publically humiilated etc but are now back here for their members and for each other trying to rebuild things. For two years our team has worked well and has recruited and onboarded people into the trauma team, ran itself successfully and self sufficiently and been supported in doing so and with the support of the trauma ambassador who alongside myself built the processes and materials, applications and so forth we use, until now. The safe haven that was created has been under threat and we are trying to maintain that for our members. We are trying to rebuild the team who have been offline, but some of whom are ethically and morally questionning things whilst trying to support their members, who feel drained and battered themselves, afraid to say anything for fear of reprisals. People should feel lifted up in their roles, not shackled. We have had to stabilise our team and we have lost team members due to the way in which the trauma community recently was penalised. And being asked to hand over trainings to teams outside of the trauma sub community is not helping and is antagonising things when people feel used, when there are more important issues to hand.
Yes moving forward is needed and is much wanted for us and within the team we are working together at working out the best way forward in doing so as a team together
@Rain45 Please respond to the email Laura and I sent to the entire trauma team earlier this week so we can set a meeting time and move forward.
@Kate
Please respond to the document sent by Rain to you and Laura prior to you guys suspending half of our team so that we can ensure you
@MonBon
I actually disagree that that original purpose of teams is semantic. The reason being is that each team having a defined purpose creates boundaries allows for mutual respect and understanding. But I do accept that if its no longer applicable then we should be open to having a new discussion about it.
Im sorry you are concerned about the language I used, but this is how I feel given how Ive seen the member community react. When I first saw the topic of a separate DID community I was kind of on the fence providing that the person leading it had experience in disorganised attachment and trauma (Or as weve moved on to, the possibility of having a Dissociative Disorders community). My opinion however has changed after spending the last 6 months in the Trauma Community, and experiencing/observing others feel very much part of the family ethos. Looking ahead from a strategic point of view, if we start the teens of in a Support Plus led area with a different dynamic and then later we do decide to transition to a separate Dissociative Disorders Community, then the adults that are embedded in the Trauma Family might feel wrenched out of that, or unwilling to move across. I also foresee that for teens aging up, transitioning to a new group of people will be difficult. Of course it could be managed but 1. If we dont need to put them through that why would we want to? 2. It would require a lot of additional co-ordination between Support Plus teen trauma and the Trauma sub con 3. Due to the history of the engagement between the 2 teams I cant imagine this happening smoothly.
I got a bit lost with the analogy if I am honest. If you meant that we can talk about panic attacks under the anxiety topic then yes this is what I am advocating for. Dissociative Disorders offering, to be covered under the Trauma Sub Com ‘heading. My issue with having 2 teams running under the same ‘heading, it that it leads to confusion. Who is responsible for issues? who is accountable to who? For example we had teen members PM trauma sub con team about issues with Support Plus teen sessions. We arent able to do anything about this because we arent running the sessions and the members in question didnt feel able to follow the feedback form process for whatever reason and therefore it led to their feedback being dismissed. Something that is very triggering for the member and confusing/impractical for us to know what to do with (one of the points we raised in the document to Laura).
Moving onto the next point, in the past I have seen sessions that have stated that DID is a personality disorder that is not always caused by trauma. This is inaccurate and dangerous, training and experience are the only ways to prevent misinformation, hence why I suggested people go through the Trauma on-boarding process as this helps with ensuring everyone is on the same page.
Attachment is indeed a big topic, I included it here only for the purpose of understanding that disorganised attachment comes from traumatic experiences with attachment figures, such as neglect etc… I think attachment issues should be discussed by all teams across the board as it underpins the way people behave and why and leads to a great understanding of individuals needs. I am however going to only focus on attachment issues that relate to Trauma and Dissociative Disorders, as that is my area of experience.
The reason that transitioning between groups of people is jarring for trauma survivors is because 1. Cups have segregated teens from adults so unless their listener is a teen and adult listener they might not be able to work with them moving forward 2. It feels like abandonment 3. It reinforces past trauma beliefs and could undo healing progress in this area. Now while I know my Trauma peers are more than capable of deal with and working through such issues I strongly feel they have gone though enough already and if I can avoid harming them or causing distress in any way I will do it. Because they deserve out best, society has ignored their needs enough. In addition if it were your teen coming onto the site for trauma needs, youd want the best for them.
The reason why I suggested the clinical discussion route was practical. Yes I absolutely think we need a site wide review of safety/commitment/boundaries and safe guarding principles and how they are implemented. I had had absolutely horrific contact with listeners who have told me that they dont believe in body memories, that my having multiple personalities is in some way and attempt for me to shirk responsibility for my actions and my personal favourite… Im trolling.
I understand that you are at the stage of going through each sides concerns, but we have, in my opinion, been stuck at this point for a long time. My suggestion of using the therapist liaisons was practical because we havent been able to get past this point and trust has broken down with management due to the feelings of being silenced etc… I am aware of the tenants of active listening and I think if all listeners were self aware enough and had the right boundaries in place it would go a long way to improving the situation. Im not a professional, I just listen, but I also deeply care for and invest my time in helping people with my area of specialist knowledge and I am self aware enough to step back and not cause harm to others when I dont know what Im talking about. Im not suggesting we rely on professional advice, quite the opposite. We have liaisons for a reason, lets use their knowledge to build up ours and share it with our community. I want to offer the best that we collectively have to give.
I was deliberating about this part but Im going to include it because I think it is the actual crux of the issue for me personally and these things must be resolved for me to make myself available for further discussions on these issues:
- The conversation must not be hijacked from the actual issue which is that we need to be able to have boundaries as a team and it not be ok for others to demand we let go of them when they want to do something different. Engagement needs to be strategic, without making the conversation about how either party feels about the situation and based on what our members need.
- Ive observed my team agree on, create and maintain safe boundaries for our community and then have those questioned. Its fine to collectively question a boundary and if we have got it right, it is not ok, to pick off and focus on individual boundaries in an attempt to have us lower them to meet another person/team wants or agenda. This is gas lighting and if I am pushed, I will absolutely draw a line in the sand and fight for my teams right to have boundaries and maintain them.
- We need to be allowed to keep and maintain a safe environment, without fear of punishment. It is disrespectful and unprofessional to step on a teams boundaries. When weve complained about no longer being able to set our own team boundaries, those out side of the team got overly angry at us. This effectively squashed our ability to keep and maintain a safe environment and we were punished by our teammates being removed from the site because of drama that we didnt create. Which then left us feeling as though we didnt want to speak for fear of being removed also. Im at the point where I just dont have the energy to go up against this ‘rage machine.
- There have been too many ultimatums and not enough discussion, we are doing ‘this so get on board or you wont be able to do it at all. We were silenced, or worse, our reputation publically questioned in forums. If the option(s) on the table were the right ones, no one would need to be manipulated into doing it.
- There are too many invisible contracts enforced on the site, for example, you volunteer to host/write discussions, so we expect to own your session content and dictate who and how that is delivered to members. Ive not agreed to anything more than writing sessions for my team to deliver within our agreed boundaries. (You can also see evidence of that in the leadership meetings Ive attended over the last 3 weeks).
- The way we are required to act on this site honestly confuses me. We are told we are to be professionals but that the site its not based on professional support. We are told to be listeners and create safe environments but we arent allowed boundaries or have opinions of our own. I cant put my identity in a box, nor should I be asked to. We come here to volunteer support and this is used to illicit us to do things that other people want us to do, by citing that this is the professional way of meeting the requirements.
If any one wants to have a discussion with me about how we can communicate healthily Im totally open to it. If we start another discussion or are requested to attend meetings about what team will do or how they will do it, Im out. Continuing on without addressing the manipulation of communication happening is toxic and unhealthy. There are more options on the table than are even being discussed and I dont want to feel pressured into any option that isnt best for members.
@LifeIsMyCanvas
(Will respond fully later, but absolutely thank you for mentioning what you feel is the crux of the issue. You absolutely should have mentioned it and I'm glad you did!)
@MonBon @LifeIsMyCanvas
Terribly sorry for the delayed reponse!
I think what I was trying to get at was that our teams can adapt over time to fulfill new needs and as you mentioned, we should be open to having a new discussion about it!
I do hear your concerns about different dynamics and support and the foreseeable issues caused by aging up or transitioning to a new group. I believe through training and cooperation, we should be able to create a consistent dynamic and a consistent way of supporting. I believe Laura posted something today trying to address this and ensure that training and onboarding between teams and within communities remains consistent and at a high caliber! To your 3 points, there are many ways to do things, some better than others. Coordination may or may not be the best way, but I do think it's the most likely way based on the intent of subcommunities and my history with the site. I recognize the history of the two teams is not the best, but I'll do my best to continue supporting both teams as well as the site overall ♥
My analogy was actually discussing separating them. Right now we do have panic attacks under the anxiety topic, but there could potentially be a future where we have both an anxiety topic and a panic attacks topic. I don't think this separates the two topics, but gives them overall more room to grow and have support. Our topics are always growing and evolving. Our most recent examples of this are with the new upcoming subcoms: Foster Care Support and Family Support are on their way to being topics of their own, despite having grown from a different category altogether. We are splitting out Veteran Support soon although it is currently under Job and Career Support. It's very common for subtopics to expand out if they have enough participation.
I'm so sorry to hear that the members felt they were unable to follow the feedback form process. Their feedback should not be dismissed, but I will admit it is better to take in feedback when it's all coming from the same place. Perhaps this is something else we can improve in our efforts to improve the coordination between group support and subcommunity teams.
Re: Misinformation and trauma on-boarding process - I believe that is what Laura's post earlier today is trying to address: creating consistency in trainings for all facets of the subcom. There is a separate issue specifically preventing that for trauma right now, but I do not feel it is appropriate to discuss here.
I thank you for sharing your points on attachment! I think understanding how attachment factors in with trauma and dissociative disorders is important for understanding any safety concerns and potential consequences of inconsistent training and onboarding.
I absolutely agree about the jarring transition from teen to adult! One of the main reasons I've always loved the forums is it is the universal point where teens and adults can receive uninterrupted support. I think what you mentioned is a good way to think about it: "If it were your teen coming onto the site, you'd want the best for them."
Re: site wide review, good to know! It might please you to know that quarter 3 is focused on safety. I think our safety coordinators @Power and @Heather225 have been working on initiatives in that respect. Perhaps they will be able to take in some feedback from you on that front?
We have been stuck at that point for a while, and for that I apologize. I think there have been many speedbumps along the way, but I will continue trying to support and make everyone feel heard as we work through this process. Thank you for clarifying your point about the therapist liaison! That helps me understand a little better. AnnaKate is on break I believe, but perhaps the one @BeeLeigh mentioned or another therapist in our community can help in that venture.
I really like your point on strategic engagement. I think there have been a few instances where the conversation was hijacked to focus on how people were feeling, but I am proud of the improvement over the last few days in that respect. I do feel like we are moving closer to trying to address what members need, even if there are still a few stuck points here and there.
I think I am a little lost with the "pick off and focus on individual boundaries in an attempt to have us lower them." My understanding of the situation was there was a miscommunication on what the process was, mainly that the two teams had different processes. I don't believe either team was intentionally trying to circumvent the other, but following their process as they understood it. Obviously, this miscommunication has been very harmful to members and listeners alike, but I do believe we are also making steps toward ensuring processes are aligned. If I was misunderstanding you, please correct me!
The piece about a maintaining a safe environment without fear of punishment is difficult for me to answer. I am a strong proponent of being allowed to disagree respectfully and professionally. I think we should be able to disagree without fear of punishment. However, where I struggle with your point is: subcommunities are not in a bubble. As we discussed before the vital factor of consistency in support within a subcom, consistency is also vital across the site. While we do encourage each community adjusting to suit the needs of their specific members, they are still subject to site policies that are constantly evolving to better fit the needs of the entire 7 Cups community. This may not always be comfortable and in this case could have been approached better. Additionally, regarding the punishments you speak of, self care breaks, leadership removals, etc., these are often based on other factors that no individual on the site will have full knowledge of. Therefore, I cannot guarantee that respectful forum discourse will protect an individual from these consequences given the other factors at play. Speaking on the forums, however, I can guarantee that if there were individuals requiring feedback based on any disrespectful forum discourse during this process, it has been given, which is as much as I will say on that.
I know there are two more points I haven't responded to yet, but I hope my response is adequate for now! Thank you for posting Canvas ♥
@MonBon
Thank you for hearing me out and responding
The point about picking off boundaries probably wasn't worded clearly, even though I tried! I meant that sometimes a particular detail about a boundary or point is focused on and it undermines the wider principle. For example we raised concerns about training and that lead the whole focus to shift to what documents are available to be shared etc when that wasn't the actual issue. The issue was the process hadn't been followed and we didn't know what was or wasn't inplace instead and if that was safe or not. I felt like it was not ok to enquire why everyone doesnt follow the same process and be treated the same regardless of which team they were coming from. I wrote a response to say that information was shared with all who go through onboarding and to address some mis information, like the dashboard being locked out from management. I actually checked today and Laura is the owner of the dashboard, I also checked that the settings are still on for sharing, so that point was simply not accurate. Any way that's not something I can comment on much more than that as I am not involved in the training content etc.
@LifeIsMyCanvas
Okay! Thank you for clarifying that point, I think I understand a little better now
@LifeIsMyCanvas
you make some really strong points. I definitely agree that before leading a session the session leader should be at least informed on the topic. I do want to mention that teen and the adult sides have always had different leaders/teams for their discussions for example theres a teen depression leader and an adult depression leader. This allows teens to feel empowered on the teen side and in control of their side rather than feel like adults are taking over.
@SouthernFlame
To which I would like to point out that Trauma has always had a teen side that operated separately, but still within the bounds of the Trauma Community, to ensure the safety of all involved, and accuracy of all information provided.
@BeeLeigh
i understand what youre saying but i do wish to say that lately i havent actually noticed any teen trauma presence in the rooms or discussions. The only stuff Ive been noticing are when @AnyaS did something. But assuming the teen side established within trauma subcommunity is just on break because Kristen is, the teen community has a need that need to be met. Theres obviously been some type of emptiness that needed to be furfilled and thats what has encouraged teens to step up. It would be beneficial for the entire community if the two teams that are for teens would merge for the betterment of teens and to help things remain consistent. How does that sound?
@SouthernFlame
That sounds great! Which is why we were originally just requesting that our own application and onboarsjng process was followed for the teens! If a teen wants to work within Trauma, then please, by all means, apply to the team! But this whole going outside of us to get around our process is not the proper or professional way to do things.
@BeeLeigh
Hey, Bee. Sorry for late reply got caught up with quality mentor-type chats and a teen mod meeting. I am glad that it sounds great. I do believe that we can all work together so we can do what we all want, to support members dealing with trauma/DID! I can understand how this must all look for the users of the trauma team. It does sound like a good idea for the teen team to try to incorporate the training for their discussion leaders and such as it would create consistency for the members who will eventually move to the adult side when they age up. I am sure as long as the discussions happen, these teens would be willing to have the current leaders of the trauma community assist them in achieving what we have on the adult side for teens!
@LifeIsMyCanvas Thank you canvas for mentioning all this
Hi Crew - sorry im late to the thread. Kate and I sent a doodle poll out to the trauma team on August 7. We were hoping to meet up and chat. Nobody has filled up the poll yet. We are ready to talk to anyone at any point. Let us know when it would be good to connect as a team and brainstorm further.
@Laura I am unwell currently with a kidney infection but I am talking with the team about this as they are with me. However, it would be good for the whole team where possible to meet together with management but we need to find a time we can all do but the doodlepoll doesnt show the times others can do which would make it easier when choosing a time. Weekends would be better for the team generally when it comes to meetings as most people work.
@Rain45
So sorry to hear you are unwell. I wish you a swift recovery rain!
@Laura
I haven't responded to the poll as I haven't seen anything on the agenda which covers any of the issues raised in either the open letter, the document we presented to you or an attempt to respond to the issues we've been discussing with Mon Bon above. I'm trying to be open minded and chose not to feel stonewalled or backed into a corner, but the situation is making it more difficult.
If we are all to have a voice and feel heard we need to have boundaries, starting with 1. an objective 3rd party mediator (I suggested a therapist liason) 2. An agenda that covers the issues from all parties 3. Freedom to express our opinions without fear of reprisal, reputation damage or being asked to do something that we feel is not in the best interest of memebers.
When we have sorted out those things we can work out a good time for our international time zones to align. Likely mid september when Rain is back from her prescheduled leave.
@Laura
First of all, thats an outright lie. I did respond, and stated that all of the times given were during work hours for me, so I wouldnt be able to attend regardless what was chosen.
But what I find horribly unprofessional about your post is the fact is was made in the first place. Since that information was given to the Trauma Team in a private email, would mentioning this fact not count as confidential chat information? Sure seems like it to me. But you have yet to respond to our concerns that were outlined and presented to you in a team document prior to you suspending most of us. Will that be happening anytime at all? Weve presented our side. Give us the professional courtesy of responding before posting lies about us in the forums while, at the same time, also posting confidential chat information.
@Laura
Hmm, curious that you want to discuss your email on a public forum, but if thats the way youre playing it, here goes.
Yes, you did send a poll out. And an agenda which was very clearly your own, and had no regard to the issues and concerns raised by the trauma team. Why would I want to put time aside in my day to meet you to talk about YOUR agenda, and have my own concerns ignored? Im a volunteer, you seem to forget that with your demands and expectations.
And its incredibly difficult to trust any meeting where you hold all the power. As youve previously demonstrated, you can ban a person on a whim, and in doing so bring the trauma community to its knees. Incredibly you then ignore any attempts by other trauma team members to engage with you, whilst posting up such banal threads yourself as ‘whats your favourite colour. Seriously, is this what matters on this site?
And you also have a thread running encouraging people to take self care, whilst saying support will be available for communities in their absence. Yet there is none, there was none, and its all hollow promises.
So all told, I have no faith that any meeting would resolve anything. Thanks for the offer, but until an agenda is posted that addresses the issues for which I and several others were censored, no thanks.
@rain45 @lifeismycanvas @agreeablekite4304 @deborahuk
Hi all - thank you for the replies! As with all meetings, I am always open to adding additional topics to the discussion. If there are additional topics, of course we can discuss. Hope that helps!!
@Laura That would be good, thanks Laura :)
@Laura
Thats like 1 of many concerns, who is going to be the mediator and what boudaries are we all agreeing to around communication?