Nov 10: Back 7 Cups/ Upgrade
Hello Everyone,
We have been conceptualizing and building an update to 7 Cups over the past few weeks. This update has been outlined by @GlenM here. If you have not already, I encourage you read this post to learn more about this update.
Please subscribe to this thread to be alerted with updates & delivery timelines!
Yay!
updated my listener account so i dont have access to personalized growth path :\
Just came here to say that I personally do not think that is necessary to have all these buttons scattered around the site interface trying to convince me to upgrade...
I don't intend this to be mean-spirited but just saying that it's a bit obtrusive
Also I don't really like the language on the main button "subscribe to start feeling better" it feels personally to me like not subscribing won't make me feel better and I'd like if it could be changed
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn @Twish ^
@n0thing14
1 - number of, placement of "calls to action" - this is an experiment and in some ways it's better to start off more "obtrusive" and dial it back to find the right level than never find out where that line is at all. I know it can be awkward or uncomfortable and I'm sorry for that. Your feedback is a big part of how we can get it right faster (more fast? fasterly?)
2 - the message of the calls to action - hate to sound like a broken record but we will also be experimenting with them, trying out many different wordings and ways of choosing the language to show. I think you are helping us by showing the negative implication of a message and I'm sure we can find ways to frame things so that they are appealing and uplifting without most people feeling diminished or bereft if they choose to say no.
One interesting thing is that we (of course) hope people will contribute, the more the better (within reason!), but we don't need, let alone expect, everyone who benefits 7 Cups to give, let alone be able to give. We know many cannot and many won't for other perfectly good reasons. Whatever model works it will enable most people to get help from 7 Cups for free. And there will always be many ways to contribute above and beyond or separate from financial contributions.
I guess my point is we are going for sustainability here, not fabulous riches :D - even in startup terms there is a saying from Tim O'Reilly that is something like "create more value than you capture" - meaning don't try to milk some tiny thing dry for money but make something that is so valuable that you only need to capture a little of that value back for yourself to keep it going.
I'm hoping these updates will include patches/fixes for the following:
*Chats randomly poofing (not from mods or admins removing them, but legitimately disappearing
*Users you have spoken to not showing up on your profile as someone you held a conversation with, or completely disappearing from the chat box daring the 1 on 1 chat
*Implementing a spell check/and spell editor for all browser support
(If you right click to correct the spelling, theirs no options, it just gives the red line underneath)
*Profile adjustments, The ability to space in profiles, or clean them up to make them look nicer.
~Spirit
@SpiritWolfie
hit add post to soon
*The ability to edit your topic post
*Removing the spam from the yellow bell to quit telling you the same thing over and over endlessly.
@SpiritWolfie
Here is our current top known issues list. I can add items you mentioned that we don't have yet.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
Thanks! (I'm a website owner too so I know how hard this stuff can be yay for techies!)
Another thing you may wanna consider is that when we try to share certian links in the listeners chat or with the people (like giving them a crisis hotline or such) most of the time the emoticons break the link
@SpiritWolfie
And one more thing.. Sorry I would edit my post but can't
(jackie chans voice - one more thing....)
Could you also undo reverse order of peoples names for chatting?
in most standard website format, its Top to bottom, not bottom to top
It becomes insanely confusing when seeing the following
User A Posted but names shows up on the bottom of the post, which makes it look like User B was saying something
it should be User A Posts, name is ontop and post is on the bottom (repeat)
@SpiritWolfie
this is a lot of stuff to process. would you mind using our suggestion box (bottom of the Feedback & Support page) so that nothing gets lost?
@SpiritWolfie
Here's a link to the Listener Suggestion Box. You have some good ideas. Please feel free to use that form to submit them so that they can be considered and not fall through the cracks. If you think it is a bug issue, there is a form for reporting bugs at the bottom of the Support & Feedback page (click on "Community" at the top of your web browser-->"Support & Feedback"-->scroll down for the button).
@RocketsMom , @KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
I have done as you asked,
And I figured it would be good suggestions, as I mentioned in my previous post I run a website, and I've had issues like this before on my site, so I have knowledge and experience in this field and kinda know what the users need to use the site more comfortably.
@SpiritWolfie
I appreciate you sharing your expertise and experience!
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
No problem!, if you guys ever wanna talk to me a bit more one on one let me know
While I don't know much about coding, I know allot about what makes both users and staff (or in this case listeners) happy, how things should work comfortably, or tracking down issues/bugs
Just pull me aside if you ever want to discuss anything with me related to concepts or ideas/or such.
I feel like it shouldn't necessarily be just monthly, I think there should be options for monthly and just one time donations of any amount. People want to give back, but I'm not sure everyone can do monthly with an automatic renewal. I'd personally rather donate on my terms either monthly or whenever without auto-renewing, but that's just me haha Although, this may just be how it's being done in the trial phase. Honestly not informed enough yet as it just came out today.
@EvelyneRose
As best as we can tell, we really need to ask in terms of ongoing support, even knowing that nothing lasts forever.
We may also experiment wth a one-time donation option along the way, and find that it's additive instead of a less good (for us) alternative. We have to do a lot of testing in the upcoming weeks.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
I totally understand, and I appreciate all your hard work! testing things out is always important, I was just throwing it my thoughts based on how I donate to anything.
@EvelyneRose - for sure and i think you may be right.
the basic question is whether (or to what extent) one-time donations "cannibalize" recurring / sustaining donations vs. whether the tend to be additive.
I'm sure we will try some variations as we go.
@EvelyneRose
My understanding is they will look to add that option later. Right now, testing the waters with the two options currently available.
Yeah that's what i assumed, like not too many options at once type of deal. Thanks :)
It is all going to be alright in the end, if it is not alright then it is not the end.
I lived by that quote 2 years and it is not the end yet
Did 7 cups become paid? What are those monthly subscriptions?
@Forgas115 7 Cups is still free :). Monthly plans are for upgraded accounts.
@GlenM What's up with those updated accounts? What do they include/offer?
@stepafterstep
Here is the link to explain the Upgrade/Back 7 Cups option. You can also read more about it in Glen's forum post: Making 7 Cups Sustainable.
@GlenM I was wondering about more training offered for listeners? I'm really enjoying the training to better help others. That's one reason I donated to upgrade. Is there more advanced training available??
@SavnSody - hey sorry we can't always reply within two hours. we try to keep up but we all (even community managers) have to spend some time on other tasks outside the forums.
There is advanced listener training now, as well as things like mentorship, and we absolutely do want to keep adding more ways to help listeners improve and advance as listeners.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn. Thank you Krink. Do I have to finish everything on first level to continue? I'm waiting for my Listener 1 results.to move to Listener 2
@SavnSody
I'm not sure I understand the question in terms of continuing but you may need to talk to folks in the community team, like @laura or @twish for more information on how to advance as a listener.
@RocketsMom Thanks!
@RocketsMom Question: If I choose to back or upgrade or donate, still confused on language, can it be done anonymously? Not have little icon by my name?
@mutter3
Right now, I think it automatically attaches to your name. However, as they make changes and revise things, my guess is that they will be open to this option. @KrinkTheMellowUnicorn and @GlenM, can this be added to the list of things people are interested in seeing with the back 7 cups option?
@RocketsMom can I give my upgrade, whatever its called, to 2 people and not keep one for me?
@mutter3--This is another good question for @GlenM and @KrinkTheMellowUnicorn. Right now, it auto assigns the first one to your name.
@RocketsMom Thanks♥♥
@mutter3 Those are great ideas. Noted.
@mutter3 - yes thanks for asking - these are great ideas and I think we should be able to make them work.
we're also thinking about how someone could give someone else an upgrade.
I posted earlier and got no answer.
@SavnSody I'm sorry. what was your question? I'll look for it...
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn I wanted to know since we choose to upgrade in my listeners account is there more training? I'm looking forward to that to better help my 1-1 people. That is one reason I choose to upgrade. To get more training as a listener.
@SavnSody, yes thanks - replied to the orginal
I hope everyone knows how much they are loved!
@SouthernDiva
right back atcha
Hello wonderful community!
Here are some things that I've noticed about the Back 7 Cups initiative:
1. The Back 7 Cups month only requires $5
2. That monthly/yearly/forever option is a minimum of $12.XX
- With this I was wondering if people that donate the minimum $5 still get the accessibility features?
3. One of my members have the sustanability badge, yet are not backing 7 Cups. Could this be a glitch or error?
4. I feel like the benefits to members are wonderfully represented, but I don't know if the advantages for listeners are as clear.
Would love some feedback! Thanks and stay lovely 
@JustMe11, good questions!
1. The Back 7 Cups month only requires $5
correct, that is the minimum but it can go up to infinity million
2. That monthly/yearly/forever option is a minimum of $12.XX
- With this I was wondering if people that donate the minimum $5 still get the accessibility features?
Yes, backing at the minimum still unlocks the upgraded paths and the other perks.
3. One of my members have the sustainability badge, yet are not backing 7 Cups. Could this be a glitch or error?
More likely, someone donated the badge to them. Anyone who backs or ugrades gets a badge and gets one to give away too.
4. I feel like the benefits to members are wonderfully represented, but I don't know if the advantages for listeners are as clear.
That's because the upgrade is primarily oriented toward members. Listeners do get the icon and the intangible perks but not the upgraded paths. Therefore backing may be a better model for listeners who want to contribute something to the financial sustainability of 7 Cups.
Hope this helps!
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn Thank you! This cleared a lot of my confusion as well :)
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn This was incredibly helpful! Thank you so much. I'm not sure you know quite how much your presence adds to the community, but just know that it is even higher than infinity million dollars 
@JustMe11 awww... you just made my day :D
also, stay tuned. as @glenM notes downthread we are listening carefully and working on some changes to the plan to address the incredibly valuable and helpful feedback we've been getting so far.
The problem I have with the current system is related to Dillion's question. At the moment 7 Cups is charging people two different prices for the same product.
I am completely behind the idea that 7 Cups needs to be sustainable and I am not against charging for products which help us to keep fulfilling our mission of providing support for people. But it's really important to me that we do this in an ethical way.
If members click "Back 7 Cups" they are directed to the Back 7 Cups page which tells them that the minimum monthly rate to get the perks is $5.
At the moment, if members click "Want to feel better? Subscribe today to start feeling better" they are directed to the Upgrade page which tells them that the monthly rate to get the perks is $12.95. There is no mention of the option to "Back 7 Cups" and get the same perks for a lower monthly rate.
It's like a restaurant with a different menu on each table, some with the soup at $5 and some with the soup at $12.95. If you ordered it at $12.95 and then found out everyone else was paying $5 for the same soup, I think you would feel you'd been misled.
I have been defending the new payment scheme until now, so I'd also like to apologise to anyone who decided to pay $12.95 without realising that $5/month was also an option. I did not look into it thoroughly enough before I got behind the system.
What's worse is that this is a site for people needing emotional support, who are often in very vulnerable situations. I think we owe people a better level of ethics and integrity.
@Michaelmichael, I understand your point and concern. We are not suggesting that it'll stay like this forever. We've instead been clear on this from the beginning that we need to test things out. We don't know which plan or path is going to work better, so we have to test both. There isn't another way around this, because we can't know what is going to work best unless we test it. It is my sincere hope that more people respond to the back us side and that is enough to get us to sustainability. That would be absolutely wonderful. However, it could very well end up that very few people end up backing us in comparison with those who upgrade. In that case, we'll know that we need to emphasize the upgrade path. Ultimately - if 7 cups is going to exist - we need to test different ways of helping it to exist. We just don't know what that looks like yet, which is why we keep testing all of these paths. When we have it figured out it'll be 100% clear. It isn't now, because we don't yet know all the answers. We are working on a FAQ today that will outline all of this. We'll also keep it updated as things change - b/c things will change as we test things.
Also, I like your metaphor, so let's stay with it. Imagine you are a restaurant that serves soup. It is an awesome restaurant, been around for a couple of years, and has a big following. One reason the restaurant is so popular is because it gives all of its food away for free. The restaurant, however, is not financially sustainable (i.e., they are going to go out of business, and not be able to provide any more food, if they don't start making more money), so they make a special soup for their customers. The soup is either self-serve where you can get a bowl and make a donation. Or, you can sit at a table and order the soup from the menu for a different price. The self-serve people are donating different amounts for the soup. The price of the soup on the menu changes regularly. Sometimes the self-serve option isn't there. Sometimes the menu option isn't there. Why would the restaurant behave in this way? Because they need to know how they can generate the optimal amount of money for their soup They need to count the money that has come in from the self-serve option. They need to count the money from the menu option. They need to see if it differs when one or the other is removed etc. The restaurant is not doing this to madden their customers. No, the restaurant is doing this because it needs to find the best way to make money on this soup so that it can continue to be free for any and all that are hungry.
@michaelmichael, I consulted with the team on this and it is a fair point. We are going to remove the paths from the back us path. Everyone who already upgraded will continue to have access to the paths, so we are not removing anything from their accounts. Moving forward, however, when you back us, the person will receive icons, conference calls, trainings, and emails, but no paths. I still need to think more on this and we still need to do more testing, but this was good feedback. I'll think more on this today and update you.
@GlenM
thank you for being so open to feedback Glen!
@GlenM Why is there a 'most popular' option when you're still figuring this out? That seems dishonest.
@AffyAvo there are still things we know like what is most popular while we still figure this out. We don't have it all straight yet and we won't for likely several weeks, but we are learning more with each day.
