October 4: Required member sign up in the new-user flow! (title updated by Krink to help clarify)
Hello Everyone,
We have updated our onboarding flow (the experience new users get when they start from the home page) to require signing up for a member account. We want to try this for the following reasons:
1) Signing up with a member account makes it more likely a person will be notified of replies, return, and continue getting support.
2) Member accounts facilitate participating in the community, and making friends, while also promoting accountability with a consistent account over time.
We will be doing this on a trial basis. This will impact new users only.
If you are a regular user of 7 Cups as a guest, we'd like to hear your feedback on this update. Please share here.
Well, I'm not a guest of course but I can imagine the concerns. Maybe they'll feel pressured to make a new email account just so they can feel anonymous, or maybe they will feel a loss of anonymity entirely since they will be forced to have a permanent name. Especially if their topics are embarrassing or they've already been trolled or made fun of for their issues. They won't be happy knowing they'll now have that associated with a name and remembered.
I think someone replied to me here but it got deleted...THIS ALWAYS HAPPENS
@Phthalo LMAO xD
@Phthalo - see the discussion of an "alias" feature for member accounts elsewhere in this thread and let me know if you think it will address this concern.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn I really like the idea!
I often use the site as a guest, despite i have a regular member account.
i long time used multiple member accounts, for talk about different topics, and did not want be recognized when talking about those. but you asked me to keep only 1 account.
there are topics i don't feel comfortable to talk from my regular member account for a lot of different reasons. now i can't use a guest account, I will just no longer receive any support for those topics.
Some topics are embarrassing to talk about. I was used to clear my cookies after talking about those topics. so not being seen again after talking about those issues. no one know its me. it gives a feeling of safety to stay totally anonymous and dont worry about listeners breaking of confidentiality.
It's a fact, I will no longer being able to get the support I need on some topics.
@TortueDesBois - if you could create an "alias" from your member acct with a random guest-like name and no way for other users to connect it to this account, would that provide you the same ability to seek anonymous support you get from actual guest accounts today?
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn Yes, of course! I would be very happy with it. Probably even more if it keeps my actual blocks on all my aliases, so if I block a listener, they can't take my request on any other of my aliases. and with no link to a profile on those aliases.
@TortueDesBois - yes I think it should work exactly that way. That's good to hear.
I feel we have a good working approach to at least try for that scenario (or what we sometimes call a "user story" in the tech world).
The one for "shy" new users I am still thinking about...
@Laura
Sounds like a good idea only if there can be some way of verifying the account. At present anyone can use any email to create a member account.
@0m - that's another step to possibly take, but one thing at a time.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
I understand the challenge of multi-track processes. However if there is no verification, any random fake or non-existent email will continue to be allowed to create member accounts; it defeats the purpose. In that case, it's perhaps better to continue guest access.
@0m - sorry but I believe in slow and steady progress, not perfect solutions. Yes we have to watch for unintended side effects or just "moving a problem around" and the most determined trolls will go to great lengths to game a system, but my primary goal is to make sure that the great mass of well intended users are guided toward an experience that we keep improving.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
Thanks for clarifying the approach :) For the well intentioned mass the approach is fantastic and any improvement towards helping them gain access to all the site features is always going to be a huge plus!
idk, there was a time when I personally wasn`t ready for an actual account on 7cups and was tentativly just exploring places for help (I remember using Muttr a lot as well) I don`t think this is a good idea for getting people in bad situtations to feel comfortable. Maybe this is to make trolls more accountable, but having good and active mods is a better idea than shutting down anonymous/temporary usernames and ways to be secretive about ones identity on here imo; for example personally when I was closeted and venting theres absolutly no way I would`ve made an account on here. for obvious reasons.
@jamesx91 Except trolls don't just impact forums and chats. They also can be really cruel to listeners, which is emotionally draining when you are just trying to help people. And then there are the ones who try to use this site to get off. I've almost stopped taking live chat requests altogether because of this.
@ThisIs543 I mean maybe that`s a good idea? Listening isn`t for everyone, I don`t really like it being encouraged that everyone should do it, i`ve had so many awful listeners and only two decent ones, one whom i`m long term with now. Listening is a hard job, it requires a lot of socal skills, mindfullness and emotionally stability, personally I wouldn`t do it because even though i`m very sympathetic I don`t have a very `soft` mentality. Listeners have to be kind, open, and stable enough to realize if something or someone is harming them, and if trolls hurt and drain you enough you can`t handle those chats listening then maybe you shouldn`t take live chats. maybe its a good thing you don`t. that`s not a negative imo, I think listeners need to more than a simple sign up of everyone and anyone interested,
@jamesx91 I have a 4.5 rating and excellent reviews. I'm a very good listener. That doesn't mean I'm okay with being propositioned. Or with being called a c&nt.
@ThisIs543 Then report those people and don`t let it bother you and/or affect you next live chat 
@jamesx91 You know what happens when you report a guest? Nothing. They start another guest account and do it again.
Btw, women love when you tell them to not let harassment bother them. Really cool.
@jamesx91 - easy to say but reporting a guest does little to protect that listener or the next.
@jamesx91 And honestly, it's super offensive for you to say that being able to handle harassment should be part of being a listener. There is no professional realm where that would happen. A female therapist would not be expected to tolerate a client sexually harassing her. I wouldn't stand for it in my job as apersonal trainer or yoga instructor, either. This site setup doesn't protect listeners from harassment, and we are volunteers. The burden shouldn't be on us to tolerate it.
@ThisIs543
@ThisIs543 OK but getting rid of the anonmyous feature isn`t gonna change anything? they can just make throwaway emails and do it again.
Either way i`m sorry if I offended you or made you angry? That wasn`t my intention, I`m just trying to point out the new rule won`t change anything for the better. If its really such a problem you`d have to block IP addresses, which is an almost impossible undertaking but would actually solve the problem. I understand women are treated differently on the site, and i`ve seen thirsty guys in the group chats before. I`ve never harassed a listener in fact most listeners have been rude, callous and insensitive to me, I don`t use live chats either. why I only go to my regular.
@jamesx91 - just because a fix won't solve every problem and may lead to new bad behaviors does not mean it isn't a step in the right direction.
@ThisIs543 - agree 100%
@jamesx91 - I think this is a really good point and something we need to figure out: how to encourage member accounts while still giving new users who are "shy" about that sufficient time to explore the site as a guest, knowing everyone is different!
We're open to suggestions on this.
Right now the new-user flow from the home page requires member signup, but the buttons further down the page or goings straight to links like 7cups.com/member/ still enable someone to get on the site as a guest. Eventually we need to figure out the right pace and how flexible to be about member signup, when to require it, what to require it for, etc., and we'd like to get as many opinions and feedback as possible to figure out the best approach for the most people.
Hello,
As a regular member here, I don't like this idea. Many people know me here and I want to be able to be anonymous when I am talking to a listener. I think it was great to be able to use the guest account for talking to listeners and it is a bit discouraging to see this update. I think many members here want to stay anonymous and use a guest account to be able to share sensitive problems.
@DarkCoffee - please look at the "alias" idea discussed elsewhere in the thread and let me know if you think it meets the needs of the situation you are describing?
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
Thank you for taking time to read our comments and working on finding a proper solution.
Yes, I think @AffyAvo's idea of having an "alias" - defined as " a guest-type username, no badges, no profile, nothing to link to the related member acct (but not able to overcome things like mutes etc. on the member acct)" is a good idea, if the guest accounts are no longer here. 
@Laura
As a listener, who has a member account and has had trouble with members and fellow listeners finding out both accounts, now when I need support I typically use a guest account just to keep things even more confidential because I know someone won't know it's me, so not having that anymore would mean, the possibility of getting bullied again, in 1-1s or in rooms. Personally don't like this idea at all
@Eccho - please review the alias idea discussed elsewhere in the thread and let me know if it will cover your situation?
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
That would work! As long as it works for both 1-1s and in the rooms, not sure how it will work exactly but it needs to be something where you are 100% undetectable
@Eccho - Yes we are thinking a guest-type username, no badges, no profile, nothing to link to the related member acct (but not able to overcome things like mutes etc. on the member acct)
I don't support this. It would be one thing if this was set up right from the get go, but with these types of changes we're being forced to either combine information we never intended to be combined or else not sharing it here.
We used to be able to connect in group support as guests - that was taken away.
We used to be able to have multiple member accounts - that was also taken away.
No we might lose the ability to connect to a listener in a truely anonymous fashion.
Some of the questions we were encouraged to answer in the past was under the knowledge that we could connect as guests or with a different member account. There's some information that I would have never put out in public spaces here if I knew these changes were going to happen.
The only way I could support this is if we have the ability to create aliases within a member account - something I have suggested before, where we can connect in group support, 1-1s and forums where none of the information from our main member account (badges included) is shown to those we connect from an alias.
@AffyAvo - i'm listening to all this feedback and appreciate it as we try to address and accommodate everyone's needs.
- I think the idea of an alias is worth exploring and might help a lot with what people are saying they want here (when existing users want "fully" anonymous support).
- For people who feel too shy to give an email on their first visit, this is trickier. I am wondering if other forms of authentication, such as SMS or even a social media account if we promise not to store that information, might give people other alternatives besides an email address for that first time signup?
- Last, I think we never supported having multiple member accounts but may no have been so active about enforcing that rule in the past.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
The 1 account/person rule for members came into effect sometime after I joined. Having multiple accounts wasn't encouraged, but there was no rule against it for quite a while unless it was specifically to get around a chatroom mute/ban. I think the change occured before you were here. If the alias option could be set up I think that would be really beneficial!
I would be way less likely to want to connect with a social media account than an email account. I've always had way more choice with email. Maybe it's different for others though.
@AffyAvo - good feedback, thanks!
@AffyAvo update, btw, I discusse the "alias" idea with Glen on Friday and it looks like we will be implementing it.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn I look forward to seeing i!
@Laura never mentioned "authentication" at the top of the thread., so this is a slight change of subject, it seems.
I'm not sure what "authentication" really means. I normally use throwaway e-mail addresseses for web sites that imagine "authentication" is a real thing. Professional spammers have scripts that automatically generate and "authenticate" throwaway e-mail addresses, obviously.
Personally, I have never genuinely "authenticated" using SMS. That is, I always borrow someone else's phone. I have never once used my own phone, although I'm happy to lend my phone to someone else for this!
I also have throwaway social media accounts for the same purpose. I imagine they are easily scripted, too.
For me, 7 cups is one of the exceptions. The e-mail addresses I use here are real, in the sense that I actually see any e-mails that 7 Cups sends me, including the spam And also in the sense that the name in the e-mail address is my real name.
Perhaps you would wish everyone to trust 7 Cups as much as I do. Alas, I cannot see such a wish coming true. I can see only a pile of throwaway e-mail addresses in your database, and people who need our help turned away.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
@RarelyCharlie - i understand your point but it's expressed in somewhat all-or-nothing, black-and-white terms.
Please don't parse my technical jargon too exactly. I use words like credentials or authentication to mean "username and password" or similar, nothing more sophisticated than that.
And asking people to make a member acct is not just about having an email address although of course if it's legit that is a decent way to try to notify people of messages, etc.
It's also a way of asking people to maintain a consistent presence on the site. Of course one can make a new member acct every day (and some people do!), so no solution to anything will ever be perfect, but one problem at a time.
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn - This is definitely a tricky pickle to be sure. We all know that some people will just not feel comfortable unless they have full anonyminity, and some maybe even doubt the security of the guest accounts themselves. I don't know what we can do for those people, but I'm encouraged to see your efforts in addressing everyone's concerns. It makes me feel good about reaching a compromises and being heard here. Thank you.
.- I like the alias compromise a lot. What a great idea! I think if this is made clear to guests, that it may help soothe most anxieties over creating an account.
- Regarding concerns about anonyminity, there are a few scenarios that I would like to add my feedback to. (1) The real world - we retain anonymonity because of our usernames. I don't use this alias anywhere else. Continuing to encourage members to sign up with a completely new, anonymous username helps to close the loop hole of being harrassed off-site or in the real world. (2) On 7cups - Sure, we do lose some anonyminity after using 7cups for a while, especially if we make elaborate posts about our situations on the forums (like I do). But that information is connected, again, to our usernames and not ourselves. If we are being harrassed on 7cups to the extent where we feel the need to create guest accounts, that's horrific and should be addressed separately. But isn't it possible to change our usernames by contacting support and explaining our concerns? I know that isn't a fail-safe, but I still think it's a good option to start feeling safe again. (3) Multiple issues, multiple accounts - Okay, this makes sense to me and my heart just goes out to people who have this concern, but I think the alias idea is a wonderful compromise for this situation.
- My two cents on authentication options: If there is going to be a verification method, I think allowing the member to choose which verification route they want to take, whether that's SMS, social media, email, &c, is probably the best way to go. In that way, potential members won't feel forced to connect 7cups with a platform they're not comfortable with, and the options may help increase member sign up as well.
- In regards to the IP address suggestion that I have seen everywhere, I just want to thank you for pointing out that it is possible multiple people can be connected to the same IP address! I have had issues in the past, where a member of my household managed to get our IP address blocked on a platform and it was very distressing.
- Someone said people who need to talk immediately ought to just use a hotline. To that point, when I found 7cups, I needed someone to tell me everything would be okay fast, but was not in crisis, and phone calls make me anxious. A hotline would not have been an option for me. I agree that people who are have an active plan to hurt themselves or others can be encouraged to use a hotline, but that doesn't apply to everyone who needs quick support.
I ramble on and on, sorry! Thanks for reading and looking forward to aliases being implemented and other ideas that may help everyone continue to feel safe!
@wontsleepwontwake - I really appreciate the thoughtful feedback!
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn - I have been thinking about guests testing the waters... Just brainstorming below...
1- Maybe Noni could somehow be a solution for 'testing the waters'? I know she's just a bot... maybe if bot responses aren't adequate enough, could listeners sign up to be Noni-responders and have their responses relayed through Noni back to the guest? I'm sure Noni's already going through massive surgery and maybe that would be too much work... I don't know...
2- Maybe a premade, animated mock/demo chat might be a compromise for 'testing the waters'? I know that's very impersonal and maybe guests would be disillusioned, but it would show the guest what the chat looks like at least? I don't know again, just thinking...
@AffyAvo I like the idea of having aliases. Then, we could have some kind of middle ground between people who true anonymity and protection for listeners against abuse. Until this thread, I had no idea that listeners were subjected to abuse. With aliases these issues could be monitored and entire accounts revoked if they disrespect boundaries.
@Anonynectarine - Yes, I think for the scenario of members who want anonymous support the alias idea would work better overall than use of guest accts does.
I am still puzzling through how to give reluctant new users sufficient "space" to warm up before becoming a member....
@Laura
I don't have a problem one way or the other
I don't use guest accounts, but after reading the other comments above all I have to say is please don't do this!
It does make sense - if you're a regular user of the site and begin to get to know people on here, suddenly it no longer feels as anonymous and it's understandable that someone might want to chat as a guest in a way that feels separate from their 'usual' reputation.
People deserve the freedom to feel safe. If being a guest makes them feel safe then who are you/we/anyone to take that away?
@Peachsicle This idea of anonymity, where no one knows that you are connected with your already-anonymous account, is a bit extreme.
12 Step programs take anonymity very seriously. It means they won't identify each other outside of the meeting. Here, we already have more than that, because we don't share any personal identifying info. What I'm hearing here is as if someone had been going to AA with a bag in their head for years, and when asked to take the bag off, said, you're not letting me be anonymous!
@Peachsicle
I agree. People deserve to be able to feel safe.
For example, when I chat with a member I often look to see whether they've written anything in their profile, or in their feed or in the forums that might tell me more about their situation.
But it's perfecty reasonable not to want me to be able to do that. So I can understand that a member or listener might sometimes want to chat as a guest. I don't see any harm in it.
Someone has described it as like wearing a bag over your head Yes! That's exactly what it is! It's the ability to disown your established identity for a while, so that you feel safe discussing difficult issues.
Part of our problem at 7 Cups is that we use the word "anonymity" falsely. Everyone here has a name, and some of us have more than one. I think it would be good to permit true anonymity, but I understand that many people would find that too scary.
@Peachsicle - would the ability to generate a temporary alias as @AffyAvo suggested meet that same need?
@Peachsicle - please look at the alias idea discussed elsewhere in the thread and let me know if it would meet the need you are describing.
And if anything, it will just encourage more people to make 'throwaway' accounts to use in certain circumstances - whether that's permitted or not. Which I'm guessing is not the outcome you want.