How would you define masculinity?

@Amanda84

Hi Amanda! 😊 ❤️

Many thanks for your amazing as well as thought provoking forum post! 😊 I'm really glad that you have opened the floor for men to share their thoughts in regard to this. I think it is much needed. 

While my input as a female wasn't requested (no worries) I have truly enjoyed hearing the responses from our male teammates! 

How anyone "shows up" in their masculinity is person as well as situation dependent. Females too can have masculine/feminine energy as well as males having feminine/masculine energy and so I try to see it as humans relating with humans. 

Anyone that owns a television or a computer, most likely is able to see the current disconnect between some men and women (as sad as it is). It exists. In an effort to have empathy for us all, I guess men have things that are confusing and worthy of complaints as well as women. I have seen harshness from both sides of the isle and in doing the reverse engineering on all of it, I can see many ways in which this has all truly come to a head. 

In defense of men.....

Being masculine isn't toxic. By saying that is trying to say that men are toxic and not all men are toxic, lol. There are so many masculine traits that are truly wonderful and quite deserving of deep respect and admiration. Everyone simply "shows up" differently in that way.

I think men have gotten so many mixed messages and starting from a young age and based on the current state of the world, I can see how they are incredibly confused and ill equipped to deal with how it is that they are being seen. 

Do they open a door for a woman or will they be yelled at for being chivalrous and helpful (some women don't like that and want to be more independent)? Do they offer to lift that heavy box for a female or will they simply be seen as a predator? If I were a guy, I guess I might be really confused and see everything as a potential "double bind" issue. 

From an evolutionary perspective men and women are just wired differently. Both have great traits and much to bring to the table. Perhaps both men and women are angry about being taken advantage of and mistreated for different things and in different ways. It really is a give and take and some give, some take and some take really badly. It can create negative stereo types and blanket statements that no one deserves if they were never part of any type of toxic behavior.

I heard a podcast from Jordan Peterson. While he may be seen as a bit polarizing to some, what he said in that podcast made complete sense to me. He said...."women want a monster". My take away, from what it was that he meant was....women seek (mostly) safety and security. Evolution plays a role in that women might be smaller, weaker and want protection for their offspring. 

Women want a man that will be enough of a "monster" to keep that front door locked, to make sure that she and her children are safe from the "baddies" of the world while not mistreating her (keeping the inner monster in check), little children, the elderly, pets, or anyone that is undeserving of mistreatment etc. 

Sometimes security can come in the form of being a wage earner, having a bit of inner drive to keep food in the house, a roof overhead and while she might contribute to that as well while being a caretaker for children along with the man of the house. Or making family decisions to focus on the children while the woman works outside of the house. It's a great human objective, not just male or female. 

Seems like evolution to me in that everyone contributes in different ways and it's up to men and women to have conversations with one another, decide how everyone will contribute, which ways are most valuable to one another and adjust as necessary. Just finding the right "fit" for you, someone that is like minded. 

I won't speak to what it is that men want as I am not a man, however I am someone that might understand what some of those things are and how it plays out from an evolutionary perspective too. Understanding anothers "love language" can be really helpful also. 

Dr. K from GGHealthyGamer tells us that 1/3 of men don't know how to give love or to receive love, largely based on upbringing by other men in their lives, confusing societal expectations. What worked then might not exactly work now, in this day. Men are confused and hurting. 

Hoping that everyone can find ways to be kind to themselves as well as others and to learn grow in current times. ❤️

*high fives* 😊 and *hugs* ❤️

@Amanda84 All of the men in my family have died because they either didn't take care of themselves ("Men have to be tough!") or they drank the pain away ("Men don't show their emotions!!"). Those societal norms can be really toxic, especially as they are portrayed in America.

Societal norms can eat it! I think masculinity is fluid. If you think braiding your hair or picking flowers is masculine, that's great! There are lots of traits that society has labeled as inherently masculine or feminine, but having those traits doesn't change your gender expression!

I am a tall, strong woman. For many people, that makes me look less feminine. For a while, I rocked a buzz cut and I got sooo many strange looks ("That's not feminine enough!"). But I don't care what they think! I love my body the way it is! I think the same is true for men: just do you, boo, and your aura will shine with masculine energy (if that's what you want, anyhow)!

P.S. I recognize that the mindset I have is not an easy one to get to. It has taken me lifetimes to get where I am today! But for all the work it has taken me to be this comfortable with my body, it was soooo worth every second!

One last thing... in the time I've been here, I've never seen a "Men's Help" chatroom open up. Even 7cups doesn't really consider the idea that men might have things they need to speak about that only other men might understand.

I don't think masculinity is as exclusive as everyone thinks, I think everyone can show masculinity, and that true masculinity comes from the ability to persevere and still be human, striving to always become a better version of yourself, not being fearless but brave, not heartless but bold.

@Amanda84 I see masculinity as more about discipline, strength, and peace within yourself. Less about being macho and more just calm and ready to go when a moment of action occurs. True strength comes from within.

@Amanda84 what i have been taught and still being taught that if a man flinches when hes inflicted with lets say pain or anything that let him down, e should face them alone. if he needs help, like lets say hes depressed and looking for support hes weak mindedand is weak . like me being in 7 cups makes me feel weak inside. i think to myself " why am i using 7 cups ? to get emotional support ? why? am i weak ? " these thoughts cross my minds sometimes. sometimes i wanna break down in tears and just cry out loud but then i get this guilty feeling or more like i get ashamed for thinking to cry yk.  im thinking the more manly way to let out your emotional burden is by shouting on top of our lung in the woods for maybe at the punching bag. thas what i think masculinity is alll about.

@Amanda84, 

this is definitely a bit late to the original post, but I did want to reach out and share my own experiences with this, being a guy myself. It's hard sometimes seeing the expectation of how I'm supposed to be, versus who I am; I do consider myself masculine. But my first response to a lot of things is to cry. 

This is something that runs in my family- my dad and mom both are generally pretty emotional people, for better or worse. However, a lot of times, I feel like I have to constantly prove that I'm "real enough" of a boy because of these expectations that are placed on men. And the real kicker? I do this to myself. I constantly feel like I'm being judged by others' expectations, because I have expectations for myself. 

"Am I walking right?"

"Am I slouching like a boy would?

"Am I being too energetic?"

Y'know, things like that.

And I feel like I'm not the only guy who does this! In fact, I'm positive that a lot of guys do this, as a byproduct of the expectations of how men are supposed to be, placed on us through multiple generations of somewhat suppressed toxic masculinity. So, yeah, those are just my thoughts, lol. 

Thanks for the food-for-thought! :) 

Virility is a good for a man and a father and is appreciated by women. Most people who end up committing crimes or in psychiatric hospitals grew up without a father. The father sets the limit, also phisical. Most desireble qualities are hard to achieve, but the solution is never to deny their value. Insecure men need humility, self-acceptance, and awareness of their strenghts to progress towards their best selves. If they deny the value of masculinity/virility they will never improve.

This thread leaves me both sad and hopeful.

Sad that so many men are dealing with this.

Hopeful at the determination to redefine masculinity.

I think masculinity is about being secure in yourself. 

I completely agree with the poster who said that the definition of masculinity changes with age. I think we generally become more secure with age, and the more we can do to speed this up, the better.

I agree that the messages men get can be confusing and conflicting. So here's my message.

YOU ARE WANTED, with your imperfections. 

The imperfections make you human, and that's what I want to share my life with - humans. 

@Amanda84 dear not all men are same, there are many pious souls among men who are emotional ny heart