Measuring the Care Alliance
Hello Crew!
I shared a post called “Care is Electricity” a couple of weeks ago. The gist is that caring for another person is therapeutic - it brings healing to them.
In the clinical world, therapists use a tool called the Session Rating Scale to measure this connection. It turns out, this tool is the single best predictor of what helps a person get better. A researcher actually did a study (worth reading) looking at listener therapeutic alliance levels right here on 7 Cups and found they were on par with professional therapist levels! I write more about this in the Care is Electricity post.
Starting tomorrow, we will begin using the Session Rating Scales in member and listener (1:1) conversations. You can read more about how the scale works here.
How it Works:
At 30 messages from the member, and then again at 100 message intervals (if it has been at least 7 days since the 30-message mark), members will see a modal that looks like this:
After the rating is submitted, both the member and the listener will see the results in their chat.
If you get a low score, remember: it is just data. It is not a grade, and it does not mean you failed as a listener in that conversation. It is simply a way for the member to let you know, in a less direct way, that they don’t feel quite understood yet. Mistakes are how we grow, so there is nothing to be ashamed of (check out my post: “We Are Not Our Mistakes”). You also have to take these ratings with a grain of salt. External factors can influence a survey - sometimes a member is just having an incredibly overwhelming day, or they may not have the words to explain exactly what felt off. Not every member will be able to give clear, helpful feedback, and that is okay. The goal is to stay open to what you can learn without taking every score personally.
What do you do if you get a low score? (Adapted from here)
Step 1: Reflect and Thank.
"I notice the score on [item] is lower today. I appreciate you being honest. Can you tell me more about that?"
Stay curious. Stay grounded. Do not defend, over-explain, or debate the number.
Step 2: Get One Concrete Example.
Ask for a specific moment that didn't land. If they can't name it, offer gentle options: "Was it the pace? The focus? The depth?" Clarify whether the issue was the content of the chat or the way you were relating to each other.
If the member cannot explain it, you can still respond with care:
“Thank you for letting me know. I’m sorry it didn’t feel quite right today. I’ll keep this in mind and try to be more supportive moving forward.”
Step 3: Collaborate on Adjustments.
Offer two small, testable changes moving forward. More structure? Slower pacing? A different focus? Confirm what success would look like for them, and let them know you'll check in on how they're feeling about it later.
Step 4: Reflect with Support.
If a low score feels confusing, discouraging, or hard to understand, consider bringing it to a mentor on 7 Cups. A mentor can help you reflect on the conversation, look for possible growth points, and decide what you might try differently next time. You do not have to process the feedback alone.
The therapeutic alliance - or what I’m calling the “Care Alliance” outside of a therapist relationship - happens with friends, family members, educators, and especially right here on 7 Cups!
Measuring this will help us better understand how the Care Alliance unfolds so we can - as individuals and a community - help people grow and heal.
Any and all questions are welcome! Please share below.
Update:
All, update! We just ran the first batch of SRS scores. Drumroll please!
Max score is a 40 (you add all the scores). 36-40 is considered therapeutic levels / therapist parity. Right now, our listeners are scoring a 34.76, which is remarkable! The results will get more solid as more results come in, but this initial sample is significant.
Job well done!!!
Score Averages
| Category | Average Score |
| RELATIONSHIP | 8.79 |
| FOCUS | 8.67 |
| APPROACH | 8.70 |
| OVERALL | 8.56 |
@GlenM
Hi Glen! 😊 ❤️
Thank you for the update! 😊 ❤️
I truly appreciate you letting us know that ... oh, this is happening and we are going "live" with this one (no surprises), that it has been researched and done here in the past (with great success) and what the value is for us doing this moving forward.
What's also great is that you are actively mentoring us here in the thread with the roll out. You are giving us ways in which to potentially perceive this. You are providing us with actionable steps to take when this happens, best ways to engage and to learn and grow with our members. This is no "ding dong ditch" experience and you are providing us with the needed tools to handle ourselves and in a way to maximize best outcomes.
I don't know, for me, I enjoyed you also "priming the pump" for this with not only the "Care is Electricity" post but also with the pod cast in which you spoke of your Care Alliance thoughts.
I watched that pod cast. It made so very much sense to me in that, yes, of course you won't get very far with helping others if they don't feel that they are liked, if they don't feel as if they are cared for. What it is that you said validated my thoughts and feelings that I have had all along around here on the platform and also in real life.
The interesting thing too is that you really don't miss a beat! For me, this is in direct alignment with one of our core values *high warmth and high expectations". I see high expectations as providing resources, links, information, direction and maybe that's more of a process driven activity.
Someone can provide those things and if it's done in a way with very little warmth, cold, punitive, aggressive, low empathy, etc. the message might not be heard at all. People will stop hearing you. They don't want to go to mean spirited people and so the message is lost. Do people repel from you or do they gravitate towards you? True high warmth and genuinely caring for others provides the gravitational pull.
Wondering if you would consider providing us all with the link to that pod cast here? You know, the one where you spoke of the care alliance? I enjoyed seeing you in the moment. I saw how you leaned in physically, to *put your arm around another* and it was a powerful moment. You were right there, in your mind/headspace, totally in the zone. To me, it was incredibly authentic and your mind and heart, both taken to a very real place that had nothing to do with that podcast, at all.
*high fives* 😊 and *hugs* ❤️
@SparkyGizmo well said Sparky! People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I like that old saying. We tend to bias actual content (what we are saying / writing) but I think it really pales in comparison to that sense of felt care that another person senses / experiences.
This podcast? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKLY1htVJSk&t=941s If yes, then if you tell me the exact place then I can update the link here with that time stamp. Glad you enjoyed it!
-Updated to where Sparky recommends here: https://youtu.be/lKLY1htVJSk?si=3ZiOEJBsehxhDSdI&t=808
@GlenM
I like that old saying and It feels spot on to me! 😊
I just watched it for the second time and so....
woo-hooo! yup! That's the podcast and all of it is good. The moment I was referring to starts at 14:00 and the lean in with you physically is at about 14:23 in regard to care alliance. 💫
Odd comment for the day, get that left rotator cuff checked out. If there ever was such a thing as an empath, I just might be one. Not sure why I'm picking up on that?
*high fives* 😊 and *hugs* ❤️
@SparkyGizmo link updated! will keep an eye on my left rotator cuff!
@GlenM
One “gift” you bring to explaining the “care alliance” is something with which many struggle: saying in a simple way what is truly complex.
Describing a care alliance as someone who has a genuine feeling of liking the person (puzzled, in distress) and simply being with them as you both look at the problem together is (to me) like a civil engineer taking a styrofoam cup to describe buckling, something about which people do their dissertations. (speech to life experience connection)
As someone who cares deeply about Sharing Circles, I especially appreciated the shout out to Sharing Circles, and the equally simple description of what Sharing Circles do: people share for up to seven minutes and receive support from other participants. Sounds simple, doesn’t it? Yet so many things are happening within those interactions.
And, yeah, get that rotator cuff looked at for sure. You gotta be able to kayak more on your rivers, no?
@CalmRosebud thank you for those kind words! I'm sure you've heard this that there is simplicity on the other side of complexity, but you can only get to it by going through complexity. There is simplicity on the other side of it too, but it isn't a simplicity with depth. You've got to go through the challenges to get there.
Thinking about graduate training for mental health professionals is kind of like this. You go into the field b/c everybody tells you you are a great listener and you helped me! Then they go to grad school and learn all the complexity. Then after practicing for several years they arrive back to what they knew pre grad-school. Listening and caring for the other person is what matters!
@GlenM
This sounds like a wonderful update!✨ I personally feel lost in conversation sometimes when a bunch of messages have been exchanhed without an outcome and I feel it won't be right to probe the member for a feedback at that moment.
❓I do have a question though: will the result stay in the chat for further reference, or will it be a view once type of thing? (Because it would be easier to scroll up and compare the results if possible in a week.)
@Luminity125 I believe it will stay in the chat, but let me confirm!
@GlenM
Thanks for the update--this seems like an awesome initiative that has a lot of thought behind it.
I have some questions/concerns related to how this information is going to be communicated to users over the long-term.
Something to consider is that the average person who's reading this thread right now is an experienced "power" user of 7 Cups who has deep familiarity with the site's systems.
The average person who needs this information is a new member/listener who joins the site a year from now, doesn't have any familiarity with the site's systems, hasn't read this forum post, won't find this forum post, and won't know that this forum post exists.
Will new users who haven't read this thread understand that there are two rating/review systems and that they behave pretty differently?
- The traditional evaluation is private/anonymous/asynchronous while the SRS evaluation is instantly shared with the listener
- The SRS evaluation is temporary/short-term while the traditional evaluation is permanent, determines public-facing profile statistics, and drives eligibility for nearly every major leadership role on the site
A new member might fill out the SRS evaluation thinking that it's private feedback for the site, only to realize that all of their ratings have been pasted directly into the chat for the listener to see.
Will it be clear from the UI which one is the traditional rating versus which one is the within-session rating?
Is the information within this thread going to be incorporated into new listener training? New member onboarding/resources? Newbie Hub resources? Quality mentor and listener coach training? Academy programs?
7 Cups is a collection of many intersecting systems, and changes to one system can have cascading effects on other systems.
@QuietMagic
Hi Magic! 😊 ❤️
You bring up many good points, things for consideration. Your post was incredibly well thought out! 💡Some of these things I had considered also.
Some of the things that I came to while taking it all into consideration is that somehow we end up learning around here. New things will always be introduced. It seems to be a bit like "trial by fire" in some respects and for some things, but at the very least, we are getting a "running start" this way. The OP laid out some really good ground work for us.
The LSR is a great place to learn. Hopefully some of us have read this post and might be available in that room should listeners have questions. We seem to find a way to all learn together in that room not that it solves everything. Seems like an over time kind of thing that certain things get woven into the tapestry around here and become second nature.
The current review opportunity for members of their listener is there. Agreed, this now adds an additional layer and could come with some challenges (opportunities in disguise?).
I had considered that this may not be for the faint of heart, but instead a teamwork effort from the member and listener to work together. It would take a kind and thoughtful member that only wants to help a listener learn and grow (a bit courageous as well) and perhaps a strong relationship that already exists and has a strong foundation with said listener.
It would take a potentially strong listener in their own right to be able to take the feedback and go through the above steps with the member to come to a deeper understanding of what their (the members) specific needs may be. It would take a listener that is already on a personal journey of "loss of the ego" and a "it's not all about me" kind of thing.
One can simply hope that the new program won't contribute to animosity. With relationships come adversity at times. It's how it is that we work through those moments and I guess we can all remain hopeful?
While I'm not the best and brightest that 7 cups has to offer, I do provide a bit of structure to my chats with members. All of my chats (well, not all if it's a causal chat sometimes) have a beginning, a middle and an end. I let the member know that I have 45 minutes to chat with them and I ask "how does that sound? Will that work for you"?
If that works, we proceed. Mid way through the chat I like to ask "How am I doing as your listener today"? This gives the member an opportunity to give me feedback, good, bad or indifferent so I can know if I am doing well and should continue in the same way, If I could do something different for them or if they really just are not enjoying my style at all.
Based on their response we can continue on, I pivot and try to change it up or I come to the realization that I just might not be the right fit for them. No harm, no foul and I spend the rest of my time providing the browse listener link and giving them great information on how to potentially find a listener that will help them and in the very best of ways.
I try to consider that with this new way, some of that is being done for me? I guess this is happening and so I don't have an option here but to adjust and embrace the best way I can. Change is hard for me too.
*high fives* 😊 and *hugs* ❤️
@QuietMagic These are all good points. Yes, we can update throughout. More immediately, what copy changes would you recommend to the screenshot of the modal pasted above?
@GlenM
Thanks very much, maybe something like this? Tried to keep the total length roughly the same, open to changes:
Old:
7 Cups has an in-built feedback tool that measures how you perceive the therapeutic alliance with your listener. It only takes 1 minute and is a simple 4-item scale where you can decide to move the scale as to where it best fits your experiences.
New:
This 4-item scale only takes 1 minute to fill out and helps your listener understand how to better support you. Your responses will be shared with your listener in this chat so you can both discuss how to work together, and they will not appear on your listener's public profile.
@QuietMagic
that sounds better, and less clinical and confusing
I like the lead in the revised version that it will only take a minute—
@QuietMagic thanks! This will be updated soon.
@GlenM
Thank you for the update, it does sound quite helpful.
I think someone else already raised a concern about how newcomers will feel about this, in terms of understanding the rating system, I got another thought to add on that.
People who just joined the site are incredibly open and sensitive to feedback, and usually take everything very seriously. For people who have never met a Mentor, didn't read posts in the Listener Learning and Journey Forums, and in general didn't read beyond the basic training, I think this kind of feedback can be hard to understand.
If you're used to cups, this will be a huge help. But for people who haven't learned yet how to distinguish the constructive feedback from just outright insults, (or maybe just negative thoughts that a member always has and may be projecting on the listener) that's hard. When I was new, I took everything to heart, and it took me a while to understand how people react differently, and that feedback doesn't mean you failed, but that you can "grow and help more people", to quote one of the first reviews I ever got.
Suggestion: Could we limit this function to verified listeners only, until we know more about how people feel about it? Might even be a motivation for listeners to get verified, if they know they'll get more feedback that way, and by getting verified you automatically have to go into depth about listening skills, hence learning how to make the best of feedback, other than taking it personally.
It's quite late over here, if any of the above did not make sense, please ask for clarification.
Have a good evening, and thank you for the hard work.
@MelodyoftheOcean hello! I think it would be helpful for folks to understand and feel care across the entire population so I think is good to keep it for all involved. That said, I like the idea of making it more palpable and meaningful for listeners. Do you have any recommendations on how we could do that better?
All, update! We just ran the first batch of SRS scores. Drumroll please!
Max score is a 40 (you add all the scores). 36-40 is considered therapeutic levels / therapist parity. Right now, our listeners are scoring a 34.76, which is remarkable! The results will get more solid as more results come in, but this initial sample is significant.
Job well done!!!
Score Averages
| Category | Average Score |
| RELATIONSHIP | 8.79 |
| FOCUS | 8.67 |
| APPROACH | 8.70 |
| OVERALL | 8.56 |
@GlenM
🤩🌟🤓
@GlenM
🥁 🥁 🥁
That's great to hear. Looking forward to seeing how things unfold moving forward.
@GlenM
I haven’t seen anyone raise this concern yet so I am going to. I don’t mean to put this into a negative perspective so I hope it doesn’t come across that way. I do think it’s important to acknowledge very real possibilities, though.
My main concern with this feature is that in real time, a listener is given a rating from the member on how they are doing. Feedback is great and all but I unfortunately do not think everyone is going to take it well. I would hate to see listeners that get “poor” ratings become aggressive or defensive towards the member. In a perfect world, this wouldn’t happen. But we know we don’t live in a perfect world.
I am prepared for the response essentially saying members should screenshot and report any instances of that. We all know that’s an option. My concern is that we are setting members up for negative reactions from listeners that do not respond well to feedback, and we know those do exist here.
@Shadow thanks for sharing this and not negative at all. I appreciate you being mindful of that concern!
I think this is a fair point and concern. Another person has brought up a similar concern. We have a number of channels for feedback and monitoring things. We haven't heard any concerns yet, but we are keeping a close eye on things.
@GlenM
How can what takes place in a private chat be monitored without a report, though? Unfortunately not all members are aware of the reporting process or don’t feel comfortable. And that would just be cleaning up a mess after it happened.
Another concern I have, and I’ve witnessed this one, is that listener will become upset that they don’t get perfect 10s and just tell the member to find someone else then. That can be pretty disruptive and leave a member feeling incredibly rejected. Especially when it can be so hard to find a listener for a lot of members. I know a listener never has to stay in a chat they don’t feel comfortable in, but I feel like ending the chat simply because you didn’t get perfect feedback is a little much. It’s happening and will likely continue to happen, though.
@Shadow sorry I missed this earlier! Yes, people would need to make a report just like they do to address any other issues on 7 Cups.
I understand that you experienced a listener being unhappy about their results. This will happen. It can happen in therapy too. The goal would be to help any listener that is offended to not take things personally and use the protocol we've outlined above. I am sure this has happened to you and I imagine it will happen to others too. It is something we will need to address and help give listeners the skills they need to address this. It will take a little time and extra training, but we will get there!
@GlenM
There is absolutely no way to “help a listener not take things personally” when they’ve decided to take it personally. Plus, that’s not a members job. A member is there to receive support, not support a listener because their feelings got hurt over imperfect feedback. And really, you can’t expect a listener to not take a personal rating personally. If a listener is upset they obviously will not follow the outline. A member isn’t going to be able to be like “Hey, pause, follow this outline instead of getting mad at me.” and again, you can’t expect them to. It’s not their responsibility. This is not actually addressing these concerns, it is creating excuses for a system that can, is and will cause harm with no substantial benefit.
I also want to add, comparing this to therapy is not ideal. We are not therapists, this isn’t therapy and we are constantly reminded of that. We are constantly being told to remind members of that as well. Therapy is also a much more professional setting and therapists have much higher training and are significantly more likely to remain professional and receptive in situations in which they receive feedback.
@Shadow to clarify, I am not at all saying it is the member's job to do this. It is our job via training and other scaffolding.
@GlenM
I guess I will need to ask you to forgive me for not putting a lot of trust in that when many many listeners aren’t even embracing the basic training required to become a listener, let alone additional training to not respond poorly to feedback.
@GlenM
As a member who had this survey pop up in a chat, I skipped it. In the middle of dealing with emotions, I couldn't deal with the distraction.
Maybe a "remind me in 5 minutes" option might help those of us who'd like to give feedback, but don't have the capacity in that particular moment?
Yes, I was wondering how I would feel if, in the midst of a therapy session, someone would enter with a clipboard asking how things are going?
@Clio9876 that is a good idea. I'm glad you closed it!
@GlenM That is an idea that sounds very honest and I look forward to seeing this in action :)
Thank you for sharing these updates with us Glenn.
:)
@GlenM
Are the scores remarkable? They are skewed, and should be interpreted in that light.
Bad conversations don't last 30 messages. They end well before that. So your survey is only measuring conversations above a certain level of success. Its self selecting a biased population. So this is not a good measure of the quality of help provided on 7 cups, only a measure of how good the good conversations are.
I hope this data won't be used in false advertising. Because that would really damage my view of 7 cups.
@Clio9876 self-report inventories that are administered after a certain "dose" of a service or intervention all have this same bias in them. And, yes, a free service on the Internet where people are helped and get therapeutic levels of care at no cost is indeed remarkable. It is beautiful. We are not able to help every person as much as we want, but we are able to help many. I am very proud of us for that. I think we should all be.
All, another clarification here on how often the modal pops. In a new conversation it will pop after the member sends 30 messages. The overall messages across both listeners and members will be around 60 if the listener is responding 1x for every member message. For conversations that are older, or where the modal has already popped at the 30 message mark, it will pop again at every 100 message interval as long as it has been 7 days since the last time it popped.