March 22: Follow up information on Navigation updates!
Hello everyone!
In this post, I outlined our plans for navigation updates. We've been working on these updates over the past few days and will launch them tomorrow morning. Below you will find further details on what to expect. Changing the navigation may throw you off a little bit. It's like we are rearranging some of the furniture in the house. Please take a little extra time to get used to the feature.
As a reminder, the purpose of the update:
------> Update the main sub-community landing page to be more relevant for each individual
------> Make it easier for new users to find sub-communities and connect with them
------> Create a central hub for you to find important community information like: alerts, 7 Cups feed posts, recent blog posts, Group support events...etc and more!
Here is what you can expect:
The top navigation bar will look like this:
The community button will no longer be a drop down (ignore the arrow you see there presently). When you click this top community bar, you will be brought to this page:
Items to keep in mind on this main community page:
------> The following community & site features will be housed on this page: blog, community calendar, information on reputation, internships, community guidelines and about us! These items will be located on the bottom right hand side and look like this:
------> There are two direct linking buttons to the forum (one circled in pink) and the other is listed on left bar direct below the last sub-community
------> Alerts will be located directly above the calendar on the right side
------> On the left side, you will see a list of the communities you subscribe to. Below my subscribed communities, will be a list of other communities you can join!
------> Chatrooms are located in the middle! The rooms listed will be only those associated with the sub-communities you are subcribe to!
Additionally, we've moved the direct link to the feed & support buttons! They are now located in the drop down under your picture icon on the right side of the page.
I'm anxious to see what this looks like in action because right now it doesn't feel particularly intuitive to find the forums if you're not already looking for them. Or, put another way, if I looked at this page and had a primary issue that didn't have a subcommunity yet, I don't know that I would think "Oh, I bet if I track down the forums, it might be there!" but would rather think "Guess my topic isn't here...." and not look much further. I anticipate a significant drop-off in forum activity for non-subcommunities, particularly among new users if this doesn't become much clearer.
A couple ways we could do this - a button that says something like "Not finding the topic you want to discuss? Check out the rest of our forums here!" or listing all forum areas in that side bar, rather than only those that currently have subcommunities.
@Anomalia
I like that idea! Good point!
Will share with team. Could be as simple as a text update... but will ask!
@Laura - this may be a bit clearer when you can show the updated screen with its direct forum links?
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn
yes, i think it may! We will have updated pictures tomorrow (and you'll see the update yourself at that point)... so let's circle back to this point!
@Anomalia - the bottom the subcommunity list includes both an expansion to show the (forum-only) topics as well as a direct button now for the forum root page.
Our assumption is someone looking for topics will be scanning the subcommunity list. I also based the direct link in the forums area in the middle from your suggestion re promoting forums similarly to how chat is featured in the main column.
I'm open to other ideas!
@KrinkTheMellowUnicorn - The expansion definitely helps, though I'm still not sure I would find things as easily as a first time user - I suppose data will tell us within a couple weeks if people are finding non-subcommunity forums or if we're losing engagement there.
I also noticed that under group support, I only see the ones associated with subcommunities I belong to, without an intuitive path to find others. While I could probably figure it out, the fact that I have to know there are more rooms to even begin to look for them is likely going to be an issue, again, especially in rooms that are not a part of a subcommunity.
I understand the goal to show people a home screen with the relevant information for what they have chosen to subscribe to, but it seems to me that in doing so, there's actually more lost than gained.
@Anomalia
Yes, we will be closely monitoring the impact of this update.
Good feedback on the group support. If we are linking to the main forum page with all forums, it makes sense to do that for group support as well.
@Anomalia everything has always been lost on 7cups.
this is like a bandaid that fixes it by making things even more lost.
but in doing so, it sorta channels people into primary areas.
so, i mean, it "solves" a lot of problems in that they probably don't have to fix them anymore because they're so neglected at this point :P
personally, i'm not a fan of big communities and i think the community pages have far too much extranneous information and i will always be of the opinion that people should be free to choose their own path, however. this will get the team what they want, which is, i'd imagine, to have supportive people pretty much always on hand in a more group and less private setting (as listeners are terribly variable) that isn't group chat, which is a cliquey hell of rarely acknowledging people sometimes. because the communities are great at hand-holding :o
anyway. think they should've left the drop-down for a while and just had "my communities" but. minor gripes i have with the page and new navigation aside, the real question is how is it going to be when these communities explode with new users? because they have already been growing so big that i don't know most the people there, and i'd imagine before long we'll have people sweeping in for a day and leaving (though higher retention). :(
and idk. i prefer individually putting bunnies on people's heads rather than wolves just coming in and grabbings them and runnings offs with them ;~;
also a matter of how navigable the page is when you are a member of multiple communites (not sure?) & how necessary some of the modules are, because some are overkill. it's a nice landing page for new users, but it isn't a page i don't think anyone wants to see every day. mostly because, you know, if i want to see three forum posts, i'll go to the forums. if i want to see one feed post, i'll go to my or someone else's feed. and if i want to see new blog posts, i guess i'll go to the community landing page and scroll down to some awkward box off in the corner ._.?
this is turning into a rant on your post, sries.
tl;dr what i really want as a user is to be notified of new content that i subscribe to (which i should be able to subscribe to pretty much everything) and easy access individual pages for my specific subscription feed of each of those different things (blogs, feeds, forum subcategories etc) as well as cleaned up notifications (maybe going to need another icon or two up there because my current one is cluttered with things i never clear and the first 7 are things i didn't put in there).
what i do not want is to be forced to navigate to general areas through a page that tries to be tailored to me but really just is too many modules and not enough information (mostly glorified links catered to new users), at the moment (though, like i said, does have its strong points!).
also hugs because i know you guys are working really hard on this and i think you're headed in the right direction <3
@Anomalia I 100% agree with you!
I have learned a lot and found great resources by being able to scan ALL the forums. It's counterintuitive to take this opportunity for exploration away.
@ladylazarus1971
hey there! thanks for the feedback! I just added in two new screen shots. In them you can see 2 direct links to the main forum page. Does this help address your concerns?
:)
@Laura
+1 here, I don't understand the need for adding an extra click to get to the forum. Shouldn't it be possible to have a click on "Community" lead to that new page, while a mouseover still gives us the option to choose the forum directly?
@hereigoagain
Thanks for your feedback. The idea is that when you click the "community" button, it would bring you to a page which house all of the forums for which you regularly participate in. This is determined based on if you have subscribed to the community or not. As others have mentioned, the flaw in this is that not all forums are sub-communities (yet). That is why we added two forum home linking buttons! So that if you regularly participate in a forum that is not yet a sub-community, you could easily navigate to that main page.
@Laura
'We've been working on these updates over the past few days and will launch them tomorrow morning'
So, is this an Admin thing? Were site members consulted in any shape or form?
Are you willing to listen to members and revert back to the old version if it doesn't prove to be a success?
@rebel11
Hey there,
The original post announcing this update was shared on March 8. You can check it out here. Based on feedback shared in that thread and sent to me privately in PM we made changes to the design and flow. These updates will continue to evolve and I am going through the feedback presented in this thread now and will share it with the rest of the 7 Cups admin team to see how any of it can be resolved.
I hope this helps to clarify your concern. We have tried to include you all!
@Laura jsyk, i like to be involved in feedback on site development and even i had no idea this forum existed or that you were planning a major update to the site
which is weird, because i used to follow site updates. ;~;
probably because it was moved from the aptly named "Listener Feedback and Site Updates" to its own category in the dropdown list that I dread trying to find anything in? xP
which, like.... you already know the forum is effectively impossible to navigate because of so many categories with so many subcategories so there's no point beating that dead horse. *pokes it wiffsa sticky tho* ^-^
also there's no way to subscribe to updates, yet :3
but point is, "it was posted" does not mean that more than a few people were aware of it prior to the notification on the updated page.
@bunnypants @Laura
I agree that the forum needs to be 'pruned', there are too many categories and too many threads. This has been said before. The whole point of having a forum is that it is 'user friendly' and easy to 'navigate'. At the moment it's like 'War and Peace'.
A daunting prospect for members to visit the forum, although there is loads of awesome infomation in the forum that members would find very useful.
@LauraI think they provide a little more clarity/room for exploration. Thank you!
@Laura NOBODY CAN SEE ME IN THE GROUP CHAT ROOMS
WHY?? ITS BEEN OVER 2 MONTHS NOW
@sonzz - I noticed that you posted several times in this thread about this issue, so I have deleted the others and left this one. If you're having issues with group chat, the best policy is to email community@7cups.com where they can more directly address what's going on. Good luck!
@Anomalia
Agreed. It makes the forum harder to find for those who've not even been able to find it yet.
@Laura can members set status online/offline ??
@selfdisciplinedComputer
Nope, not presently. The screen shots above are from a listener account. Listeners are able to set their status. I think down the road we could add this in for members too! :)
@Laura Wow I think it would be a great news if this feature will be added for members :)
Thank you for replying !!
I don't know how I feel about this. I'll give my thoughts once it's here though.
@BurningEmber
It is live now :)
@Laura
Oki I took a look. For me, it's not hard to navigate because I know what should be. But maybe for a newcomer, all on one page could be overwhelming. But I do like that the schedule was moved because we always get newbie listeners confused about where to find it!
@BurningEmber
thank you for the feedback! I appreciate it!
Yes, i like where the schedule is located too!!
As for new users, we will be monitoring this closely. If we find/ hear that they are not finding the communities/ resources that they needs, we will make adjustments! Additionally, if there are any newbie members or listeners reading this post (new within the last week or so), please feel free to share feedabck on this update!!
Hidden view of buttons in the "Community" and "Announcements" section:
Collapsed view of the same buttons: 
Basically, we need to change the content of toggle-accordion before and after expanding
The content does change. But the words should change and not just the arrows.
@Isaac
@Isaac
thanks for the feedback. Will add it to the list!!
Seems to me this design is confused because the word community is being used to mean different things in different places. Sometimes it means the entire community, sometimes it means a subcommunity, and sometimes it only means a forum category (like addiction or loneliness).
This page is trying to cover up the underlying confusion, but I don't think it succeeds very well. For example, I suspect the "external link" warning on the Forum Home link tries make the point that forums are not the same as subcommunities. However, if you use that link to "leave" the communities and then select a forum category, you can end up right back in a subcommunity!
In my opinion it is better when user interface design and terminology accurately reflect the underlying structure and create a clear sense of place.
@RarelyCharlie
Interesting point on terminology. I see what you meant and can understand why this would be confusing for people.
The external forum links arent meant to imply that that non-subcommunity forum categories are less important. The goal is to move more of these forum categories to sub-communities as apporpriate (but we don't want to rush it). That said, your point reminds me of something Anomalia said earlier in the thread, which is, it may make sense to add additional text (or hover text) on those forum home buttons that reads, " can't find your community? Check here for a robust list of all of our topics"
I didn't comment before the change, as I had a tough time picturing it all.
I agree, things are confusing as to 'community' 'subcommunity' and the more topics makes it look like all the forum sections are subcommunities when they aren't.
7cups often has slow loading times, I don't like that I have to click to a page to get to other things now when before I had the drop down menu on community - it's the same number of clicks, but there's that delay.
The right side of the page is not appealing. Most of it is squished when I have a bunch of white space in the middle of the page. It would look a bit different for those who belong to more subcommunities - but still I think it's silly to have something like the blog thrown into such a narrow space.
I thought the Q&A went missing, but I see it's there now above the 'About Us' section.
I'm not really certain about the need for the internship information on members' community page, although that was under the community drop down before.
I like the calendar being on the page but it's slow to load so for a while it just appears as white space. The feed is something that should work well in a narrower space, but that needs improving. The word Return on 'return to growth path' is split onto two lines. Seeing all the reposts from the 7cups feed just looks really busy, that should be hidden.
Another thing that was an issue before the change today:
On the Community Page of the subcommunities I belong to I find I often click to one of the group chat rooms when I meant to click to go to the subcommunity. I thought this would take a bit of an adjustment because of how the subcommunity page used to be laid out, but it's a mistake I find I keep making.
@AffyAvo
interseting point. Anyone else intuitively think that the group support buttons will take you to the main sub-community pages, not the group rooms?
Is this a labeling problem? Or a real estate problem?
@Laura Real Estate problem. With it being centered, I think of it being the main link to the subcommunity, despite it being labelled (and having also clicked it many times) group chat.
@AffyAvo
I just unsubscribed to all of my subcommunities to get a better look at what you mean. For people who do not subscribe to any communities there are two text boxes (one is the text box everyone sees at the top) and the other is a text box about group support. Are you saying that both of these items combined, looks like a big white space?
@Laura It's not just an issue if only unsubscribed. I currently have 3 subcommunities. The narrow right hand section is much longer than the main centre section. This is likely true for most people who subscribe only to areas they have a particular interest in. With 3, they don't quite reach as far as the feed. When I add a 4th subcommunity, the right hand side is still longer but the amount of white space doesn't seem excessive.
I see that adding a 5th subcommunity doesn't even bring up an entire extra section - when I did this I lost the forum preview of Healthy Living - the community page maxes out at 4, so the right hand side would most likely always stay longer unless one has enough group support rooms to push it down that extra bit.
Summary: Anyone subscribed to 0-3 subcommunities would have the cente section too short compared to the right hand section to be visually appealing. When subscribed to 4+ the lengths appear much more balanced.
Actually this is just a new idea, I was thinking, well, I'd like a bored chat. I mean, there's bored and LONELY chat, well, topic, but one that is solely about being bored or a chat room or sth?
*I apologize for any mistakes in writing this XD*
@inventiveThinker3104
thanks for the ideas & feedback! I will pass this on to @heather
@inventiveThinker3104, I see what you mean. I also don't know how I feel about trying to click what I think is a "Bored and Lonely Chat room," and instead being connected to a personal Listener.
The more I try to get to the main forum page the less I like this. We really need a forum link on the top bar, whether it's in a drop-down option as before or it's own option on the top bar.
How about similar to the "Chat" we have a "Post" drop down menu? Under that it could have the Forum, Feed and Q&A links?
I'm unsure if it's related to these changes - I see a new forum post I can't access. It appears to be an organization (Bow Valley College: https://www.7cups.com/forum/BowValleyForums_163/BowValleyCommunity_1107/Welcometothe7cupsBVCListenerforum_64291/). If people cannot access the post, it should't be showing up for them.
@AffyAvo
I will pass along your "post" drop down idea.
I think its important to remember the goal of the udpate, which is to bring everyone to one page.
As for the Bow Valley, yes, thats a mistake. Where exactly did you see it?
@Laura It showed in the New Posts, both in the left hand of the most recent new posts on the main forum page and in the list if just the new posts were selected.
@AffyAvo - love that idea of a 'post' drop down so that it's easy to get to forums and feed similarly to group support for those who prefer a focus on type of activity rather than topic area.
@Laura @Anomalia @MonBon
Not liking this redesign either. Writing very small and unclear in places, its putting me off as a listener trying to find forums and communities let alone a member. It seems to have more emphasis on sub communities and I think other forums that are not sub communities will not get the activity they have had, and as trauma is well down the list usually, I think this could see a reduction if activity and members found it hard to find forums before. I think this one will definately throw people and having taken a quick look in trauma, there is much less activity than we have had recently, something we have worked hard to increase over recent months. I also agree that its not so important for members to know about internships and I cant even read the writing in some places especially in the feed section. Someone has posted a quote and I have given up trying to read it. Way to much information crushed into one page. The other design was far clearer. This is very confusing and if a member said to me right now how do I find X I would struggle presently to navigate them until I found my own way with this. I think the words community then sub community are making things confusing. I think sub communities are showing as more prominent and I think all communities need to be given the same importance in being able to find those easily for members
To be honest I think all these changes are actually making things more difficult. However, the calender is a good addition
@dancingRainbow45
Hello! thanks for this feedback. We will be closely monitoring how this impacts engagement in all of the forum categories (including truama). We do not want engagement to go down and we will work with you all to prevent that from happening.
Good feedback on the text size.
Sorry to hear that you believe the change is making things more difficult. We will continue to make updates to make things better and easier to use. In the mean time, I encourage you to have an open mind and give it a try! :)
@Laura Will do Laura the more I have looked around I can see some benefits but I do think text size needs to be look at. Am concerned about the impact on some communities activity going down. But there are some good aspects to it. Perhaps it can be tweaked taking into account peoples concerns and how this may impact forum activity
@Laura Can the forums button be made bolder more colourful to make it stand out more so people know where to find the forums. Its in white and black but not that visible to the eyes and be made more of a feature, rather than stumbling across it. I guess what i am asking is whether a main forums button or tab can stand out more on the page
@dancingRainbow45 Speaking as a Forum Member Leader to the ASD and BD Forums, which don't have subcommunities, I do anticipate our forum communities (if I may use that term loosely) will see less new seekers. Also, people who have been using them as resources may be frustrated trying to find them.
I am a little worried about that.
@ladylazarus1971 Yes I agree with you and this is my concern. I know members found it difficult before to locate threads and forums, I think for those not sub communities this may be more problematic and thats my main concern. I can see some good bits eg the calender but as someone who has worked very hard to increase forum activity I am worried about this going down again
Admittedly, I was at first a little confused by the update. However, I don't hate it. The 7cups community events listed on the main community page is a pleasant change to me. I think it'll encourage members to participate more in these events. I also like how the categories are shown, instead of having to click a drop box to scroll down the subject categories. That really always annoyed me personally as there are too many to scroll down to find, and I usually just gave up trying to find the appropriate category.
Looking forward to seeing new and improved changes!
@TrueArrow
Great! thanks for the feedback! Happy to hear that you think it's a step in the right direction!
@TrueArrow in so lost on where to find these an what main page everyone is taking about
@FoxiePinkPaws We are referring to the page that appears when you have initially connected to 7 Cups and click on community in the top bar. that's when the Community homepage appears. Hopefully that helped a little. Please feel free to ask more questions if you have them or if my explanation is unclear! <3
